Why do people “mix apples and oranges” when it comes to facts, just to make their opinion sound correct? In Philip Hage’s letter “Whitewashing the facts on racism” in the July 19 issue of the Daily Journal, Mr. Hage does just that. Mr. Hage lists the passage of numerous government legislations and constitutional amendments over the pass 200+ years in America to try to prove that the Republicans aren’t a big part of the problem with racism in America. Unfortunately for Mr. Hage, that doesn’t work. His facts don’t apply to what I was talking about going on right now, in 2021, by the Republicans. My letter clearly referred to current efforts of the Republicans in 2021, not in 1866 or 1957, Mr. Hage.
I do want to thank Mr. Hage for reminding all of us about the important work done in the past by the U.S. Congress and members of both political parties. But, like I said, I am talking about what is going on in 2021 by the Republicans. Bringing up historical facts that occurred 50 to 150 years ago doesn’t erase what is going on now in 2021.
Ray and Wilfred, many thanks for the Saturday SmackDown of Jorg and Mike O. It’s hilarious these two folks insist on some magical Republican to Democrat switcheroo because they’re unwilling to accept responsibility and apparently, reality. It’s telling that left wing Wikipedia doesn’t attempt to justify this far fetched hoax. Meanwhile, Jorg and Mike O can’t list a bumbling Biden accomplishment or provide any answers to real questions.
Jorg, you do realize today is not April 1, don’t you? You’re citing an article written by a physicist and you expect me to take her word as gospel for a historical/political issue? Maybe if she proved the flat Earth you’re so fond of,I might give her words more weight... I’ll counter with this link from someone who may not be able to prove the law of gravity, but has a bit more gravitas on political issues:
Ray: What questions now? I don’t have time, nor the patience to respond to all your repeat questions. I have told you before, that Instead of me wasting time trying to educate you, watch MSNBC and CNN, and try to read LTEs, like Mike Oberg’s, with some understanding and an open mind.
For the past week and a half, left leaning DJ readers have tried to paint the Republican Party as racist while ignoring the fact that the Democratic Party was founded on slavery and continued to oppress African-Americans from the 1800s until the present time.
With respect to what's happening today in America, I quoted Professor Carol Swain, who said, "Democrats falsely claim that the Republican Party is the villain, when in reality it’s the failed policies of the Democratic Party that have kept blacks down. Massive government welfare has decimated the black family. Opposition to school choice has kept them trapped in failing schools. Politically correct policing has left black neighborhoods defenseless against violent crime."
Would you care to respond? I have asked for a rebuttal to Professor Swain's comments more than once during the past week and a half, but no one from the left side of the aisle has done so. Crickets. Would you give us your thoughts on this matter?
Sorry, Ray: If you don't understand Mike Oberg's fairly clear explanation of the well known history behind the D/R political switch, there is nothing I can do to help you.
Surely you jest. Your July 13 LTE was laced with your conjecture and suppositions about Republican motives. No doubt derived from the fake news media. Mr. Hage's rebuttal handled your poppycock with more dignity and grace than it deserved. Be grateful he did, and next time, try showing more respect for your audience by fortifying your opinions with a better mix of fruits.
It's not likely you will hear anything from Michael... The usual suspects will probably weigh in with some tired Democratic Party talking points, however, on point commentary supporting Michael's LTE will be absent from the discussion.
Sometimes it's too delicious to pass by. Mr. Oberg uses good rationale in making his assertions. It's a shame that the basis used in making them is unsupportable with facts.
To Wilfred and Ray, my comments are based on the truth and history of the Republican party, which, you guys probably don't know, was once the 'Southern Democrat' or 'Dixie Democrat' party in the 1800's. From after the American Civil War and into the Reconstruction Period, (1870's) to the 1950's, there occurred a gradual change in the political priorities and policies of both the Democrat and Republican parties. This led to the once Dixie Democrats now becoming the Republicans and the Northern Republicans becoming the Democrats of today. If you don't believe me, look it up online. So, the Republican party of today has a long history of racism in American history, whether under the name of Dixie Democrats or now-Republicans. So, before you guys reply to my LTE's, please educate yourself on the facts and history of the subject-matter I am talking about. Otherwise, you guys are making yourself look un-educated.
You wrote to readers who disagree with you, "... please educate yourself on the facts and history of the subject-matter I am talking about. Otherwise, you guys are making yourself look un-educated."
Seriously?
You have twisted realities in our nation's history into a shape where it is no longer recognizable. The Democratic Party was founded by a slave trader. It ran three pro-slavery candidates against Abe Lincoln. Democrats created the KKK.
Democrats who fought to preserve slavery took over state legislatures in the late 1870s and support Democratic Party policies that oppressed African-Americans. They were Democrats before the war and they were Democrats fter the war. These were not "Dixiecrats," they were just plain ol' Democrats. Republicans were not part of that Democratic Party.
Democratic Party suppression continued into the 1900s. In 1964, Republicans played a greater role than Democrats in passing the Civil Rights Act. There were no Democrats hiding in the Republican ranks when this bill was passed. There was no "switcheroo" as you have suggested. That's just plain fiction.
Democratic Party oppression has continued until the present day. "Although the big word on the left is 'compassion,' the big agenda on the left is dependency." -- Thomas Sowell
According to you, from the 1870s to the 1950s, Dixiecrats became Republicans and Northern Republicans became Democrats. Can you cite a shred of any evidence to support your claim?
While politicians have been switching parties since the time of the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, this wholesale switch you are trying to advance is just untrue. It probably makes you feel better trying to shift blame to your political opponents for your party's role in the oppression of African-Americans.
I will ask again... would you care to respond to Professor Swain's remarks?
See my comments (listed below) for facts and information about the Democratic Party's history of racism. I will gladly extend the discussion on this topic with you if you care to do so.
M. Oberg LTE, "Whitewashing racism" 7/13/21 at 11;46 am, 11:50 am, 12:21 pm and 4:43 pm
P. Hage LTE, "Whitewashing the facts on racism" 7/19/21 at 12:31 pm and 7/20/21 at 4:21 pm
Claiming what you and your ilk believe to be true, does not make it so. Likewise, neither does thinking you are more wise or educated than others. I don't suffer fools and I choose not to quarrel with fellow patriots. The relationship we have is up to you.
The following questions are for you to answer privately. Do you have evidence you are more intelligent than others? What personal achievement serve as proof you are a better thinker than others? Are there others, of intellectual worth, that corroborate the measure you take for yourself? Are you aware of intellectual honesty and civil discourse? If so, please learn to express yourself in a way that reflects it.
I ended a comment in response to Michael's 7/13/21 LTE about Democrats... "They don't want to teach history... they want to rewrite it."
I like Professor Swain. Her personal story is nothing short of remarkable. Her remarks concerning the negative effect of Democratic Party leadership on the lives of African-Americans are incontrovertible. What Michael and Jorg miss is... how do we start to fix the problems (described by Professor Swain) in Black communities across our nation?
My family is a fan of Professor Swain. Personally, she reminds me of a formally educated version of my mom. Great thinkers, both of them.
I followed the 7-13-21 thread as well as the rebuttal. As always, you and others covered the points that most interested me. Like you, I find it interestingly humorous that our friends cannot opine on the opinions Professor Swain puts forth.
I feel Philip's LTE was in some ways a rebuttal to those on the left side of the aisle like yourself who ignore the long history of the Democratic Party's racist past. If you are suggesting the party has left those things in the past you would be wrong. It has continued across the decades and is present today.
In response to your LTE on this topic, I wrote, "... the Democratic Party is still suppressing African-Americans. In the words of Professor Carol Swain, 'Democrats falsely claim that the Republican Party is the villain, when in reality it’s the failed policies of the Democratic Party that have kept blacks down. Massive government welfare has decimated the black family. Opposition to school choice has kept them trapped in failing schools. Politically correct policing has left black neighborhoods defenseless against violent crime.'"
I'm guessing Professor Swain knows more about this subject than you or me.
I asked earlier for your response to what's going on today. There was none. Look at what's happening in our nation's largest cities... cities which have been dominated by Democratic Party leadership for decades. If you disagree that those cities are failing and that conditions in those Democratic Party enclaves are not oppressing African-Americans, please tell me why.
You are just too precious. I read the article. Yes, it was enlightening, but not in the way you might think. To answer your question... Yes. The article did help... it helped prove that the switcheroo described by your colleague, Michael, just didn't happen.
Terence is correct to question the author's background. Natalie Wolchover set aside her graduate physics studies at Cal to become a science journalist. Her articles re: quantum computing, gravitational waves, and astrophysics would make interesting reading, but she is not a historian.
Ms. Wolchover cites Eric Rauchway in her article. He is a history professor at UC Davis.
I have to ask... did you read Ms. Wolchover's article? Professor Rauchway is quoted in the article. He noted that the loyalties of the parties did not really switch. According to the professor, "Although the rhetoric and to a degree the policies of the parties do switch places," he wrote, "their core supporters don't — which is to say, the Republicans remain, throughout, the party of bigger businesses; it's just that in the earlier era bigger businesses want bigger government and in the later era they don't." The article does not support Michael's claims. With the exception of a vague reference to Democrat opposition to laws passed by Republicans during the Reconstruction to protect African-Americans, It does not comment on race and oppression of African-Americans at the hands of the Democratic Party.
Jorg! Where is the "switcheroo"? Where does it say racist Democrats become today's Republicans and the "good" Republicans become Democrats? Seriously? Are you trying to suggest that Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, et al. trace their political lineage to the Republican Party? Maxine Waters?
Now, that I have read the article suggested by you. I have one last question... could you share with readers in this forum your thoughts on Professor Swain's remarks?
Nice try, Mr. Oberg. Unfortunately for you, the comments under Mr. Hage’s letter readily prove that your “facts” are not facts. Revisionist history will not change the treachery the Democrats are foisting upon us now, just as in the past. Meanwhile, all those Democrat governors who sent COVID infected seniors back to nursing homes to infect and kill more seniors appear to have been granted immunity by the bumbling Biden administration. Hey seniors, Biden doesn’t care about you – remember that when you vote. Otherwise, you’ll live (actually you may not) with the consequences.
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(23) comments
Ray and Wilfred, many thanks for the Saturday SmackDown of Jorg and Mike O. It’s hilarious these two folks insist on some magical Republican to Democrat switcheroo because they’re unwilling to accept responsibility and apparently, reality. It’s telling that left wing Wikipedia doesn’t attempt to justify this far fetched hoax. Meanwhile, Jorg and Mike O can’t list a bumbling Biden accomplishment or provide any answers to real questions.
👊
T: Y don't you read this article to educate yourself a bit:
https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html
Jorg, you do realize today is not April 1, don’t you? You’re citing an article written by a physicist and you expect me to take her word as gospel for a historical/political issue? Maybe if she proved the flat Earth you’re so fond of,I might give her words more weight... I’ll counter with this link from someone who may not be able to prove the law of gravity, but has a bit more gravitas on political issues:
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy
What a sour fruit salad your faithful commentators mixed up, Mike!
Good afternoon, Jorg
Still dodging questions, eh?
Ray: What questions now? I don’t have time, nor the patience to respond to all your repeat questions. I have told you before, that Instead of me wasting time trying to educate you, watch MSNBC and CNN, and try to read LTEs, like Mike Oberg’s, with some understanding and an open mind.
Jorg...
For the past week and a half, left leaning DJ readers have tried to paint the Republican Party as racist while ignoring the fact that the Democratic Party was founded on slavery and continued to oppress African-Americans from the 1800s until the present time.
With respect to what's happening today in America, I quoted Professor Carol Swain, who said, "Democrats falsely claim that the Republican Party is the villain, when in reality it’s the failed policies of the Democratic Party that have kept blacks down. Massive government welfare has decimated the black family. Opposition to school choice has kept them trapped in failing schools. Politically correct policing has left black neighborhoods defenseless against violent crime."
Would you care to respond? I have asked for a rebuttal to Professor Swain's comments more than once during the past week and a half, but no one from the left side of the aisle has done so. Crickets. Would you give us your thoughts on this matter?
Sorry, Ray: If you don't understand Mike Oberg's fairly clear explanation of the well known history behind the D/R political switch, there is nothing I can do to help you.
Mr. Oberg,
Surely you jest. Your July 13 LTE was laced with your conjecture and suppositions about Republican motives. No doubt derived from the fake news media. Mr. Hage's rebuttal handled your poppycock with more dignity and grace than it deserved. Be grateful he did, and next time, try showing more respect for your audience by fortifying your opinions with a better mix of fruits.
Classic...
Thanks, Wilfredo
It's not likely you will hear anything from Michael... The usual suspects will probably weigh in with some tired Democratic Party talking points, however, on point commentary supporting Michael's LTE will be absent from the discussion.
Mr. Fowler,
Sometimes it's too delicious to pass by. Mr. Oberg uses good rationale in making his assertions. It's a shame that the basis used in making them is unsupportable with facts.
To Wilfred and Ray, my comments are based on the truth and history of the Republican party, which, you guys probably don't know, was once the 'Southern Democrat' or 'Dixie Democrat' party in the 1800's. From after the American Civil War and into the Reconstruction Period, (1870's) to the 1950's, there occurred a gradual change in the political priorities and policies of both the Democrat and Republican parties. This led to the once Dixie Democrats now becoming the Republicans and the Northern Republicans becoming the Democrats of today. If you don't believe me, look it up online. So, the Republican party of today has a long history of racism in American history, whether under the name of Dixie Democrats or now-Republicans. So, before you guys reply to my LTE's, please educate yourself on the facts and history of the subject-matter I am talking about. Otherwise, you guys are making yourself look un-educated.
Sorry, Michael... you could not be more wrong.
You wrote to readers who disagree with you, "... please educate yourself on the facts and history of the subject-matter I am talking about. Otherwise, you guys are making yourself look un-educated."
Seriously?
You have twisted realities in our nation's history into a shape where it is no longer recognizable. The Democratic Party was founded by a slave trader. It ran three pro-slavery candidates against Abe Lincoln. Democrats created the KKK.
Democrats who fought to preserve slavery took over state legislatures in the late 1870s and support Democratic Party policies that oppressed African-Americans. They were Democrats before the war and they were Democrats fter the war. These were not "Dixiecrats," they were just plain ol' Democrats. Republicans were not part of that Democratic Party.
Democratic Party suppression continued into the 1900s. In 1964, Republicans played a greater role than Democrats in passing the Civil Rights Act. There were no Democrats hiding in the Republican ranks when this bill was passed. There was no "switcheroo" as you have suggested. That's just plain fiction.
Democratic Party oppression has continued until the present day. "Although the big word on the left is 'compassion,' the big agenda on the left is dependency." -- Thomas Sowell
According to you, from the 1870s to the 1950s, Dixiecrats became Republicans and Northern Republicans became Democrats. Can you cite a shred of any evidence to support your claim?
While politicians have been switching parties since the time of the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, this wholesale switch you are trying to advance is just untrue. It probably makes you feel better trying to shift blame to your political opponents for your party's role in the oppression of African-Americans.
I will ask again... would you care to respond to Professor Swain's remarks?
See my comments (listed below) for facts and information about the Democratic Party's history of racism. I will gladly extend the discussion on this topic with you if you care to do so.
M. Oberg LTE, "Whitewashing racism" 7/13/21 at 11;46 am, 11:50 am, 12:21 pm and 4:43 pm
P. Hage LTE, "Whitewashing the facts on racism" 7/19/21 at 12:31 pm and 7/20/21 at 4:21 pm
Mike O.,
Claiming what you and your ilk believe to be true, does not make it so. Likewise, neither does thinking you are more wise or educated than others. I don't suffer fools and I choose not to quarrel with fellow patriots. The relationship we have is up to you.
The following questions are for you to answer privately. Do you have evidence you are more intelligent than others? What personal achievement serve as proof you are a better thinker than others? Are there others, of intellectual worth, that corroborate the measure you take for yourself? Are you aware of intellectual honesty and civil discourse? If so, please learn to express yourself in a way that reflects it.
Wilfredo... well said.
I ended a comment in response to Michael's 7/13/21 LTE about Democrats... "They don't want to teach history... they want to rewrite it."
I like Professor Swain. Her personal story is nothing short of remarkable. Her remarks concerning the negative effect of Democratic Party leadership on the lives of African-Americans are incontrovertible. What Michael and Jorg miss is... how do we start to fix the problems (described by Professor Swain) in Black communities across our nation?
Mr. Fowler,
My family is a fan of Professor Swain. Personally, she reminds me of a formally educated version of my mom. Great thinkers, both of them.
I followed the 7-13-21 thread as well as the rebuttal. As always, you and others covered the points that most interested me. Like you, I find it interestingly humorous that our friends cannot opine on the opinions Professor Swain puts forth.
Michael
I feel Philip's LTE was in some ways a rebuttal to those on the left side of the aisle like yourself who ignore the long history of the Democratic Party's racist past. If you are suggesting the party has left those things in the past you would be wrong. It has continued across the decades and is present today.
In response to your LTE on this topic, I wrote, "... the Democratic Party is still suppressing African-Americans. In the words of Professor Carol Swain, 'Democrats falsely claim that the Republican Party is the villain, when in reality it’s the failed policies of the Democratic Party that have kept blacks down. Massive government welfare has decimated the black family. Opposition to school choice has kept them trapped in failing schools. Politically correct policing has left black neighborhoods defenseless against violent crime.'"
I'm guessing Professor Swain knows more about this subject than you or me.
I asked earlier for your response to what's going on today. There was none. Look at what's happening in our nation's largest cities... cities which have been dominated by Democratic Party leadership for decades. If you disagree that those cities are failing and that conditions in those Democratic Party enclaves are not oppressing African-Americans, please tell me why.
Ray: Let me try once more, - perhaps this article will enlighten you:
https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html
Did that help? No?
Jorg... Jorg... Jorg...
You are just too precious. I read the article. Yes, it was enlightening, but not in the way you might think. To answer your question... Yes. The article did help... it helped prove that the switcheroo described by your colleague, Michael, just didn't happen.
Terence is correct to question the author's background. Natalie Wolchover set aside her graduate physics studies at Cal to become a science journalist. Her articles re: quantum computing, gravitational waves, and astrophysics would make interesting reading, but she is not a historian.
Ms. Wolchover cites Eric Rauchway in her article. He is a history professor at UC Davis.
I have to ask... did you read Ms. Wolchover's article? Professor Rauchway is quoted in the article. He noted that the loyalties of the parties did not really switch. According to the professor, "Although the rhetoric and to a degree the policies of the parties do switch places," he wrote, "their core supporters don't — which is to say, the Republicans remain, throughout, the party of bigger businesses; it's just that in the earlier era bigger businesses want bigger government and in the later era they don't." The article does not support Michael's claims. With the exception of a vague reference to Democrat opposition to laws passed by Republicans during the Reconstruction to protect African-Americans, It does not comment on race and oppression of African-Americans at the hands of the Democratic Party.
Jorg! Where is the "switcheroo"? Where does it say racist Democrats become today's Republicans and the "good" Republicans become Democrats? Seriously? Are you trying to suggest that Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, et al. trace their political lineage to the Republican Party? Maxine Waters?
Now, that I have read the article suggested by you. I have one last question... could you share with readers in this forum your thoughts on Professor Swain's remarks?
Nice try, Mr. Oberg. Unfortunately for you, the comments under Mr. Hage’s letter readily prove that your “facts” are not facts. Revisionist history will not change the treachery the Democrats are foisting upon us now, just as in the past. Meanwhile, all those Democrat governors who sent COVID infected seniors back to nursing homes to infect and kill more seniors appear to have been granted immunity by the bumbling Biden administration. Hey seniors, Biden doesn’t care about you – remember that when you vote. Otherwise, you’ll live (actually you may not) with the consequences.
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Be truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
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