As health care workers start receiving their COVID vaccinations this week, they can thank the scientists who developed the vaccines and President Donald Trump for his Warp Speed program to deliver over 300 million COVID vaccinations. Pfizer received $2 billion for at least 60 million doses and Moderna received $1.5 billion for at least 100 million doses plus $1 billion for prebuilding production facilities before a vaccine was proven. More vaccines are also on the way from AstraZenica and others. Warp Speed also engaged U.S. military logistics to organize and cooperate with private sector companies to speed the delivery of the vaccine.
Since 92% of all deaths occur in those over 55, vaccinating them would eliminate most deaths in the coming months. Our current population immunity from 15 million cases plus 160 million doses from Pfizer and Moderna plus only another 25 million doses would very likely give us the population immunity needed to kill off the disease in the next four months. While earlier vaccines will require two doses, the first shot does provide immunity.
Trump’s optimism that a vaccine would soon be developed and prior planning for manufacturing and delivery of the vaccine will be an enduring legacy of his presidency.
If Donald Trump would have developed a vaccine in the White House basement, you would not get an acknowledgement from the left. It really doesn't matter at this point...
Curiously, in today's news... 20 to 40 million vaccinations should roll out before Jan. 20. Then, in the 100 days that follow, maybe as many as 100 million vaccinations will be administered. While President Biden will praise that accomplishment when it happens, did those vaccinations start from scratch on Jan. 20? Will Biden acknowledge the development of the vaccine that occurred before he was sworn in as president? Wouldn't such an acknowledgement be consistent with his pledge to unify America?
No, no and yes.
While we're passing out thanks. Should we send one to Bernie Sanders? He acknowledged that Democrats blocked a COVID stimulus bill. The Speaker of the House now supports a 908 billion dollar package after rejecting a 1.8 trillion dollar proposal backed by Donald Trump. Wow.
As for me I am still here and checking the DJ. I am ok sorta but my wife is not. The problems I have I place squarely at the foot of Donald Trump and the spineless enablers in the congress that praise him as if he is the second coming.
Now for the LTE. As improperly mentioned before by the gullible Trumpers that believe his every lie. Pfizer did not participate in Warp Speed in the research and development of their vaccine. They partnered with BioNTech in Germany and they self funded their research and development and started that in March and Warp Speed was not introduced until May. The only connection they have with the program is that they did agree to sell the vaccine to the US program for nearly $2 billion contingent on the vaccine being good, not taking money up front.
I have mentioned it before and will again. Trump only cares about Donald, period. No matter how much the gullible minions believe he cares about the little guy and America, he doesn’t. At the news conference the other day when he spewed more misinformation about the Warp Speed program, Donald showed again that his only concern is for himself. His biggest concern was that Biden would get credit rather than him. Any decent human would be glad that a vaccine is on the way to help not only Americans but all nations and people around the world regardless of the developer, but not Donald.
No, you won’t hear me thank him for his botched COVID response.
Blah, blah, blah, Trump bad, Trump followers bad. Oh, and now enablers in Congress bad, too. Operation Warp Speed’s goal is to deliver over 300 million COVID vaccinations, as Mr. Kahl has said, which includes accelerating development, manufacturing, and distribution. Whether R&D funds are provided, or not, is irrelevant. But not to Taffy, as he needs a reason to go off on yet another TDS rant. And Pfizer is participating in OWS, as their own press release has indicated. BTW, Taffy, you don’t need to try and create controversy to rationalize your hate. Just let it out, a la Jorg.
Thanks for beating me to an appropriate response! If anything, you expressed it better than I could. Let me just add, that no surprise among the growing majority of us that Trump tries to steal the credit for something he had nothing to do with. That’s his usual way. If anything, he hampered the development of vaccine development by claiming this innocent little virus was nothing to worry about. It would just disappear one day! And, of course, his easily fooled followers swallowed it, as usual, - with a stupid “blah-blah” in response to your input.
Ray: I am sick and tired of those trying so desperately to defend Trump! Don't you grasp the damage he has done to this country, including our reputation around the world? At least I thought YOU would be more enlightened than the rest of the Trumpsters!
I guess the comment you made about an hour ago was a compliment... thanks?
But I noticed no one has shared an answer to the question... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
Would he restrict travel? Would he set up a task force? Would he ramp up industry to increase medical supplies? Would he follow the science? Would he work with governors? Would he push for rapid development of a vaccine? Would he try to balance fighting COVID and economic concerns?
I think the answer is "yes" to all those things. But... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
It is appropriate to acknowledge the vaccines necessary to fight off Covid happened under Trump's watch. But, before his followers break their elbows patting themselves on the back because of their hero, let us remember this is the same Trump who knew in January of the upcoming pandemic and acknowledge such to Bob Woodard, and still lied to the American people and called it a "hoax". The same leader who said it would be over "in a couple of weeks". The same leader who has refused to lead by example by wearing a mask and still held super spreader events. This is the same person who has resolutely downplayed the pandemic and by his rhetoric has likely cost Americans thousands of needless deaths. He is not a hero in this pandemic which is why the American people voted him out in record numbers. His overall record in this pandemic is not to be praised, but to be scorned for the incompetence it has been.
You are correct, but as with anything pointing out what is wrong with Trump, you missed a couple, not hard to do when there are so many. The same person, leader is the wrong word, that was an anti-vaccine proponent for a decade before he was elected. The same person that invited Andrew Wakefield to his inaugural ball. The same person that thinks the vaccine should be named for him. As I said the list goes on and on.
OK... Trump is easy to criticize... you guys have proven that point. But moving away from personalities and focusing on positions, could you comment on the following?
Early in 2020, Trump initiates travel restrictions while prominent Dem leaders were encouraging business as usual in large cities, and the mainstream media was still portraying COVID as just another flu bug.
Trump set up a task force with the Veep in charge. No bureaucratic appointee... the Veep is a direct connection from the Oval Office to the experts. Trump followed the advice of the scientists in developing policy.
He used the Defense Production Act and worked with industry to get critical equipment and PPEs to where they were needed most. He worked virtually daily with governors in states (including our own state) with the most serious pandemic conditions.
All this time, Trump is trying to balance concerns over the pandemic with economic realities. Back to our own state again, our governor is probably doing as much harm to Californians who are virus free as COVID victims are experiencing with his relentless drive to a statewide lock down.
All this time Trump is making the development of a vaccine the highest priority, he is dealing with protests in several cities over local issues not related to COVID and a media committed to trying to score "gotchas" instead of keeping the public informed.
And let's not forget the Democrats pushing impeachment... a huge distraction.
So, at the end of the day, after looking at the task force, PPEs, getting the economy to bounce back, the vaccine, etc. ... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
Ray, do you really think any of the above trifecta would make relevant comments about your statements? I guess we can hope they put their criticisms aside and have an honest discussion, but I think we'll get the usual bob and weave. Let’s not forget that after our great President Trump initiated travel restrictions at the end of January, Biden called Trump's decision hysterical xenophobia and fear-mongering. So I guess that’s one thing Biden would have done differently - not initiating travel restrictions as quickly.
Yes, Ray, happy to comment. First of all, it is not relevant to ask what Biden would have done differently. What is at issue is what Trump did or did not do armed with knowledge the general public did not have. Second, Trump's early travel restrictions were not effective and filled with holes while Covid was arriving via Europe. Third, at no time in my memory did the MSM say Covid was just another flu bug - that was owned by Trump. Fourth, it is revisionist rhetoric to say the task force followed the advice of scientists when clearly Trump has been fighting Dr. Fauci, and/or pushing his advisors to pooh-pooh the severity. Fifth, working with governors? No, he, for the most part, left it to the states to fight the pandemic while lambasting blue state governors who did not agree with him. Sixth, impeachment a distraction? Yes, if you consider treason a distraction. Finally, I stand with my original assertions. Trump is not, in any way or form, a hero in this fight against the pandemic. The buck stopped at his desk and he chose to put it in his pocket rather than spend it on the general well being of citizens.
Rel... I did not state that Donald Trump was a hero. But let's get away from sloganeering... I could go point for point and refute your examples but that will just have us chasing our tails.
It is 100% relevant to ask what Joe Biden would have done differently. He was vocal in his criticism and promised us a plan to deal with the pandemic. So, the question remains... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
Ray, what did I tell you? As expected, the usual bob and weave from Rel and Jorg. Colonel Sanders may be after both of them. It’s patently obvious those two don’t have any answers, and probably never will. Those two might as well write, “Uncle!” instead of their usual fake news gibberish. Let’s see if Taffy Dave can show a little class. I don’t have high hopes, but he may surprise me.
What is the essential point of these letters? Ed's resolve to thank Trump for handling the pandemic well. Various facts were presented to show just the opposite with ample evidence to support them, and now they are called "sloganeering". Trump has systematically downplayed the virus while mocking mask wearers and undermining his medical advisors which likely has cost hundreds, if not thousands, of lives and somehow the right wingers want to lionize him for fast pacing vaccines we are not sure will be safe and effective.
No one can be sure what Biden, or anyone else, could have done differently which is not the point. The point is Trump is on the record. The country thought Trump would be a leader for all of us, but his only concern was for the stock market and for his own political prospects. It is likely that Biden will do several things going forward Trump would not do: one, have a national plan communicated to all; two, reliance on his scientific advisors; and three, if he is wrong, he will admit to it and change course.
What would Biden have done differently? I think that once informed of the severity of the situation he would not have lied or tried to hide it from the American people like Donald did. (Sorry Terence, I know your answer, no need to respond.) I think Biden also would have given science and medicine front page coverage rather than banish them from news conferences like Donald did. When Dr. Fauci corrected something Trump said, no thats's not right Mr. President, we never heard from him again.
I'm not sure that's what the record would show... Neither Biden nor Trump are the ones to give Dr. Fauci, et al. front page coverage. The media made Dr. Fauci a rock star.
Banishing Fauci? I heard the same thing from a former colleague in Hawaii. We were watching a task force briefing at the same time. He said something similar to your viewpoint that Trump was trying to banish Fauci from news conferences. We continued to watch. Trump brought Fauci to the podium ten times in that one news conference. You wouldn't hardly call that being banished...
And let's not forget... while Dr. Fauci may disagree with Trump's politics, he said Trump accepted the science... completely. And just last week, Dr. Fauci said Trump supported the vaccine development and did not interfere at all with that process.
The talking heads at Fox who rip Dr. Fauci are just plain wrong. And their counterparts over at CNN who say Trump ignores the science are just as wrong.
The M.S.M. feed their audience the biased BS they lust after. Just like they do on the right. Which I thank the left for pointing out. It's up to us to sort out the truth in what ever way we have learned to think.
I have a little bit of a different opinion of why Trump agreed to the science and didn’t interfere as Dr. Fauci said, and I also would like to have an approximate time frame on the ten times to the podium with Trump and the Dr. that you mentioned. I haven’t seen a news conference with the both of them on the stage in two or three months or more unless I missed it.
As for the Covid. My thought on that is probably not to widespread among either side but here it is. Trump stayed out of the science end of the discussion because he knows nothing about it and decided to shut up rather than make a fool of himself like the bleach cure he came up with. To continue, he also figured that if it didn’t work he would blame other people and say they they should have listened to him. If it worked he would claim credit for something he had nothing to do with like almost everything else in his 74 years on this earth.
I know it is just my opinion, but that is what it is. Also, as for CNN and Fox I generally agree with that comment.
The thoughts you expressed to Ray @ 5:25 is why I enjoy your thinking. I think President Trump sees Dr. Fauci as an inocuos bureaucrat that is supposed to be smart. I know that after the initial breaking news days and after the research I did for myself, Dr. Fauci's shiney credentials became patina for me.
If you thought like me, you could give President Trump the benefit of doubt when he talked about Charlottesville, bleach and hoax. I suspect Ray could provide more concise explanations than I. I will leave it at this, we agree right wing media takes things out of context, edits and distributes bunk. I will add, every bit as well as the left. As exemplified by what happened after President Obama was caught telling the Russia's Medvedev to tell "the Vlad" he would have more latitude after his election.
Like I said, my buddy in Hawaii and I were watching the same briefing but from different locations. I had to look back through my text files... we were trading shots across the bow about Trump and the task force. Anyway... Mar. 31. Each time Trump brought Fauci to the podium I'd text... that number six... that's the 7th time... etc. You are correct, the briefings from DC stopped, and I don't remember when Cuomo and Newsom halted their briefings. I'm sure other governors and some mayors were following suit for a while.
I disagree with suggestions that Fauci was banished. He's speaking this week with the NIH logo behind him. The NIH is part of the Dept. of Health and Human Services.
Maybe I was too harsh on saying Dr. Fauci was banished. I am aware of his appearances and various updates that he has done on various news outlets. I should have clarified it by saying that Trump basically has nothing to do with him as opposed him banishing the Dr.
Rather than whip the poor horse on these pages with cut and paste I have included a link for the time line of the Dr. Fauci - Trump history. If you get a few minutes please take a look and note the way the Dr. tries to take the high ground and the way Donald takes the low. It is obvious that Dr. Fauci is trying to do the best job he can unlike our current president.
Are we talking about the same Fauci who condemned attendance at Trump rallies but not BLM rioting? The Fauci who praised NY’s response by sending sick seniors back into nursing homes to spread and kill more seniors? The Fauci who said opening schools was a bad idea although kids are not at risk and are not carriers of COVID? The Fauci who in January said COVID was not a major threat? The Fauci who compared COVID to a bad flu? The Fauci who endorsed Tinder hookups? Yeah, Fauci doing the best job he can. If that's Fauci's best, I'd hate to see his worst. Maybe Fauci should be banished, because Fauci's best just isn't good enough. BTW, providing a link to a lamestream fake news media source doesn’t do you any favors in trying to prove a point.
You missed a few but definitely made my case better than I. Thank you. If one makes the time to research Dr. Fauci, there is not much there. Unlike, say, Dr. Ben Carson.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Fauci bad. Blah, Blah, Blah Trump Great. Did you get a supply of crying towels? I heard they are on sale at Target. Real news that was even on Faux News, the SCOTUS threw out the Texas Hail Mary law suit. The election is over! BTW, did you hear about Donald's latest law suit? He is going to sue Time Magazine for naming Biden and Harris as the front cover "Person of the Year" on the grounds that the selection process was fraudulent and rigged.
I'm sorry to hear your wife is not well. Hang in there as best you can. I remember my experience all to well. Seek outside assistance if at all possible. You need to keep yourself well in order to be of service to others.
I thank capitalism for the incentive and the reigning in of bureaucracy that resulted in the rapid development of the COVID-19 vaccines. Now I will pray the vaccines work and the judicial branch of government solves the problem of executive branch overreach.
Thank you for you thoughts. As for the judicial/executive branches. It is too bad that AG Barr has been acting as a lap dog for Trump the past two years rather than AG for the US. I think he finally realized he might be able to save a little bit of his reputation, if there is any left, when he said there was no election fraud to investigate in direct conflict with Donalds order to go find some.
The way I see it, it's part of the job description. How far back do you want to go? Remember Holder? As far as reputations go, they only matter to the unaccomplished. To be clear, I believe our voting system is broken. But as is generally the case, we will work it out if it really makes a difference. Don't forget, I am one of those that sees government as an institution with different sides competing for elbow room at the money trough. And when it comes to sex, money and egos...all bets are off.
Hey... I looked at the info in the link. Yeah, I think we can agree... Dr. Fauci has not been "banished" but there have been plenty of disconnects. Most of them due to Donald being Donald. In the end, it's hard to rattle the good doctor. He knows how important it is for him to stay in the fight, so he does. We're better for it.
I appreciate the comment and the time to look at the link. BTW, how are you and the doctors doing? I will have nip of the Lagavulin to toast an amicable conversation.
I tfeel pretty good, thanks (would be better with a shot of Lagavulin).
I've got a cardio procedure on the 21st. If it works, maybe that's a precursor for a great 2021. If not, then we'll chalk it up to 2020 and still look toward Jan. 1 with optimism.
It is to delicious for me not to mention. The balderdash reportage of the left is once again refuted. The refurbished S.C.O.T.U.S. has ended President Trump's last gasp, MSM has picked up the Biden family story and A.G. Barr has shown himself not be be Trump's "wingman". How 'bout that? As I like to say, the truth is the truth; it's undeniable and inevitable.
I was delighted to see the SCOTUS toss the case Trump was betting on to save his bacon. In my opinion they gave him a slap in the face and basically said don't tell us what to do. We are a separate branch of government and you are not a king, we do not report to you.
As for AG Barr, I mentioned in a previous comment, not sure what thread, that he could see the writing on the wall and did not want to go down with the ship. He did the right thing with the voting fraud investigation and the Hunter Biden investigation. Naturally the best part of that to me is that it got Trump's knickers in a knot. Hopefully Barr will resign before Trump fires him in his usual vindictive way. As you so rightfully said, the truth is the truth. IMO it is too bad so many of his base don't believe it.
We agree on the destination but not the roads that might have been taken. A reference to another of my beliefs; there are usually many roads that lead to the same destination. I think the S.C.O.T.U.S. followed process, which is rooted in jurisprudence. And A.G. Barr values ethics above reputation or ideology. I don't know what to make of Trump's ultimate goal. Is it to feed his ego or is he shining a light on the corruptibility of our voting and ballot counting processes? Or something else? No matter what, I hope he is gone. Not that I believe the baloney coming from his detractors, but because I don't think he can accomplish more than he has. And I could bore you to death with my opinions of everything he has done for the good of the nation. I'll spare you because I know you'll come to it yourself. In private, because it's the truth and you are a critical thinker. BTW, you are welcome to use the email address I provided Ray elsewhere in this thread. It is also my hope that when the time is right, we can arrange a trip for the both of you for some Alaskan adventures.
Yes! Looks like the progressives and the MSM got it wrong... very wrong. Trump appointed originalists to SCOTUS and the court passed on the role of becoming the arbiter between states. Then, the AG showed he is duty bound to apply the law correctly. (Of course, that could be bad news for Hunter... )
I am glad the SCOTUS did go by the law and I hope they continue. We (us on the left) will have to hold judgement until they decide a few more cases dealing with the hot button items of church-state, personal freedoms etc. As for AG Barr, I have to wonder why all of a sudden he has turned over a new leaf. Trump brought him in because of his reputation of being a fixer for Reagan and Bush and his view of presidential powers being dictatorial like Donald believes, thinking of himself as king. We will see what they find about Hunter. If guilty, prosecute him. It is time to get the country back on track. There is too much corruption on both sides and Donald has dominated that field over the last four years.
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(48) comments
Thanks, Ed
If Donald Trump would have developed a vaccine in the White House basement, you would not get an acknowledgement from the left. It really doesn't matter at this point...
Curiously, in today's news... 20 to 40 million vaccinations should roll out before Jan. 20. Then, in the 100 days that follow, maybe as many as 100 million vaccinations will be administered. While President Biden will praise that accomplishment when it happens, did those vaccinations start from scratch on Jan. 20? Will Biden acknowledge the development of the vaccine that occurred before he was sworn in as president? Wouldn't such an acknowledgement be consistent with his pledge to unify America?
No, no and yes.
While we're passing out thanks. Should we send one to Bernie Sanders? He acknowledged that Democrats blocked a COVID stimulus bill. The Speaker of the House now supports a 908 billion dollar package after rejecting a 1.8 trillion dollar proposal backed by Donald Trump. Wow.
Ray, (and Wilfred if your are following along)
As for me I am still here and checking the DJ. I am ok sorta but my wife is not. The problems I have I place squarely at the foot of Donald Trump and the spineless enablers in the congress that praise him as if he is the second coming.
Now for the LTE. As improperly mentioned before by the gullible Trumpers that believe his every lie. Pfizer did not participate in Warp Speed in the research and development of their vaccine. They partnered with BioNTech in Germany and they self funded their research and development and started that in March and Warp Speed was not introduced until May. The only connection they have with the program is that they did agree to sell the vaccine to the US program for nearly $2 billion contingent on the vaccine being good, not taking money up front.
I have mentioned it before and will again. Trump only cares about Donald, period. No matter how much the gullible minions believe he cares about the little guy and America, he doesn’t. At the news conference the other day when he spewed more misinformation about the Warp Speed program, Donald showed again that his only concern is for himself. His biggest concern was that Biden would get credit rather than him. Any decent human would be glad that a vaccine is on the way to help not only Americans but all nations and people around the world regardless of the developer, but not Donald.
No, you won’t hear me thank him for his botched COVID response.
Blah, blah, blah, Trump bad, Trump followers bad. Oh, and now enablers in Congress bad, too. Operation Warp Speed’s goal is to deliver over 300 million COVID vaccinations, as Mr. Kahl has said, which includes accelerating development, manufacturing, and distribution. Whether R&D funds are provided, or not, is irrelevant. But not to Taffy, as he needs a reason to go off on yet another TDS rant. And Pfizer is participating in OWS, as their own press release has indicated. BTW, Taffy, you don’t need to try and create controversy to rationalize your hate. Just let it out, a la Jorg.
Terence,
There is an old saying about doing something that involves sunshine. You should be smart enough to figure it out.
"Oh, and now enablers in Congress bad, too."
Actually, Trump's butt-kissing enablers in Congress aren't new.
Taffy Dave, you mean partaking of, as in George Bernard Shaw’s, “Whisky is liquid sunshine”? That’s more of your thing, but thanks for the thought.
I'm fairly certain the reference to sunshine comes back to Justice Brandeis.
Hello Ray,
I just saw your reference to Justice Brandeis and looked it up. It is a good quote but it isn't what I had in mind for our blah, blah, blah commenter.
Thanks for beating me to an appropriate response! If anything, you expressed it better than I could. Let me just add, that no surprise among the growing majority of us that Trump tries to steal the credit for something he had nothing to do with. That’s his usual way. If anything, he hampered the development of vaccine development by claiming this innocent little virus was nothing to worry about. It would just disappear one day! And, of course, his easily fooled followers swallowed it, as usual, - with a stupid “blah-blah” in response to your input.
Hello, Jorg
Check my response following Rel's comments, please.
Ray: I am sick and tired of those trying so desperately to defend Trump! Don't you grasp the damage he has done to this country, including our reputation around the world? At least I thought YOU would be more enlightened than the rest of the Trumpsters!
Hey, Jorg
I guess the comment you made about an hour ago was a compliment... thanks?
But I noticed no one has shared an answer to the question... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
Would he restrict travel? Would he set up a task force? Would he ramp up industry to increase medical supplies? Would he follow the science? Would he work with governors? Would he push for rapid development of a vaccine? Would he try to balance fighting COVID and economic concerns?
I think the answer is "yes" to all those things. But... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
It is appropriate to acknowledge the vaccines necessary to fight off Covid happened under Trump's watch. But, before his followers break their elbows patting themselves on the back because of their hero, let us remember this is the same Trump who knew in January of the upcoming pandemic and acknowledge such to Bob Woodard, and still lied to the American people and called it a "hoax". The same leader who said it would be over "in a couple of weeks". The same leader who has refused to lead by example by wearing a mask and still held super spreader events. This is the same person who has resolutely downplayed the pandemic and by his rhetoric has likely cost Americans thousands of needless deaths. He is not a hero in this pandemic which is why the American people voted him out in record numbers. His overall record in this pandemic is not to be praised, but to be scorned for the incompetence it has been.
Rel,
You are correct, but as with anything pointing out what is wrong with Trump, you missed a couple, not hard to do when there are so many. The same person, leader is the wrong word, that was an anti-vaccine proponent for a decade before he was elected. The same person that invited Andrew Wakefield to his inaugural ball. The same person that thinks the vaccine should be named for him. As I said the list goes on and on.
Rel... Tafhdyd and Jorg
OK... Trump is easy to criticize... you guys have proven that point. But moving away from personalities and focusing on positions, could you comment on the following?
Early in 2020, Trump initiates travel restrictions while prominent Dem leaders were encouraging business as usual in large cities, and the mainstream media was still portraying COVID as just another flu bug.
Trump set up a task force with the Veep in charge. No bureaucratic appointee... the Veep is a direct connection from the Oval Office to the experts. Trump followed the advice of the scientists in developing policy.
He used the Defense Production Act and worked with industry to get critical equipment and PPEs to where they were needed most. He worked virtually daily with governors in states (including our own state) with the most serious pandemic conditions.
All this time, Trump is trying to balance concerns over the pandemic with economic realities. Back to our own state again, our governor is probably doing as much harm to Californians who are virus free as COVID victims are experiencing with his relentless drive to a statewide lock down.
All this time Trump is making the development of a vaccine the highest priority, he is dealing with protests in several cities over local issues not related to COVID and a media committed to trying to score "gotchas" instead of keeping the public informed.
And let's not forget the Democrats pushing impeachment... a huge distraction.
So, at the end of the day, after looking at the task force, PPEs, getting the economy to bounce back, the vaccine, etc. ... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
Ray, do you really think any of the above trifecta would make relevant comments about your statements? I guess we can hope they put their criticisms aside and have an honest discussion, but I think we'll get the usual bob and weave. Let’s not forget that after our great President Trump initiated travel restrictions at the end of January, Biden called Trump's decision hysterical xenophobia and fear-mongering. So I guess that’s one thing Biden would have done differently - not initiating travel restrictions as quickly.
Yes, Ray, happy to comment. First of all, it is not relevant to ask what Biden would have done differently. What is at issue is what Trump did or did not do armed with knowledge the general public did not have. Second, Trump's early travel restrictions were not effective and filled with holes while Covid was arriving via Europe. Third, at no time in my memory did the MSM say Covid was just another flu bug - that was owned by Trump. Fourth, it is revisionist rhetoric to say the task force followed the advice of scientists when clearly Trump has been fighting Dr. Fauci, and/or pushing his advisors to pooh-pooh the severity. Fifth, working with governors? No, he, for the most part, left it to the states to fight the pandemic while lambasting blue state governors who did not agree with him. Sixth, impeachment a distraction? Yes, if you consider treason a distraction. Finally, I stand with my original assertions. Trump is not, in any way or form, a hero in this fight against the pandemic. The buck stopped at his desk and he chose to put it in his pocket rather than spend it on the general well being of citizens.
Rel... I did not state that Donald Trump was a hero. But let's get away from sloganeering... I could go point for point and refute your examples but that will just have us chasing our tails.
It is 100% relevant to ask what Joe Biden would have done differently. He was vocal in his criticism and promised us a plan to deal with the pandemic. So, the question remains... exactly what would Joe Biden have done differently?
Ray, what did I tell you? As expected, the usual bob and weave from Rel and Jorg. Colonel Sanders may be after both of them. It’s patently obvious those two don’t have any answers, and probably never will. Those two might as well write, “Uncle!” instead of their usual fake news gibberish. Let’s see if Taffy Dave can show a little class. I don’t have high hopes, but he may surprise me.
What is the essential point of these letters? Ed's resolve to thank Trump for handling the pandemic well. Various facts were presented to show just the opposite with ample evidence to support them, and now they are called "sloganeering". Trump has systematically downplayed the virus while mocking mask wearers and undermining his medical advisors which likely has cost hundreds, if not thousands, of lives and somehow the right wingers want to lionize him for fast pacing vaccines we are not sure will be safe and effective.
No one can be sure what Biden, or anyone else, could have done differently which is not the point. The point is Trump is on the record. The country thought Trump would be a leader for all of us, but his only concern was for the stock market and for his own political prospects. It is likely that Biden will do several things going forward Trump would not do: one, have a national plan communicated to all; two, reliance on his scientific advisors; and three, if he is wrong, he will admit to it and change course.
Ray,
What would Biden have done differently? I think that once informed of the severity of the situation he would not have lied or tried to hide it from the American people like Donald did. (Sorry Terence, I know your answer, no need to respond.) I think Biden also would have given science and medicine front page coverage rather than banish them from news conferences like Donald did. When Dr. Fauci corrected something Trump said, no thats's not right Mr. President, we never heard from him again.
Tafhdyd
I'm not sure that's what the record would show... Neither Biden nor Trump are the ones to give Dr. Fauci, et al. front page coverage. The media made Dr. Fauci a rock star.
Banishing Fauci? I heard the same thing from a former colleague in Hawaii. We were watching a task force briefing at the same time. He said something similar to your viewpoint that Trump was trying to banish Fauci from news conferences. We continued to watch. Trump brought Fauci to the podium ten times in that one news conference. You wouldn't hardly call that being banished...
And let's not forget... while Dr. Fauci may disagree with Trump's politics, he said Trump accepted the science... completely. And just last week, Dr. Fauci said Trump supported the vaccine development and did not interfere at all with that process.
The talking heads at Fox who rip Dr. Fauci are just plain wrong. And their counterparts over at CNN who say Trump ignores the science are just as wrong.
The M.S.M. feed their audience the biased BS they lust after. Just like they do on the right. Which I thank the left for pointing out. It's up to us to sort out the truth in what ever way we have learned to think.
Wilfred,
Is MSM main stream media? I am not up on those acronyms like I said before. If so, I agree with your comment.
Hello Ray,
I have a little bit of a different opinion of why Trump agreed to the science and didn’t interfere as Dr. Fauci said, and I also would like to have an approximate time frame on the ten times to the podium with Trump and the Dr. that you mentioned. I haven’t seen a news conference with the both of them on the stage in two or three months or more unless I missed it.
As for the Covid. My thought on that is probably not to widespread among either side but here it is. Trump stayed out of the science end of the discussion because he knows nothing about it and decided to shut up rather than make a fool of himself like the bleach cure he came up with. To continue, he also figured that if it didn’t work he would blame other people and say they they should have listened to him. If it worked he would claim credit for something he had nothing to do with like almost everything else in his 74 years on this earth.
I know it is just my opinion, but that is what it is. Also, as for CNN and Fox I generally agree with that comment.
Tafhdyd,
You got it my friend.
Tafhdyd,
The thoughts you expressed to Ray @ 5:25 is why I enjoy your thinking. I think President Trump sees Dr. Fauci as an inocuos bureaucrat that is supposed to be smart. I know that after the initial breaking news days and after the research I did for myself, Dr. Fauci's shiney credentials became patina for me.
If you thought like me, you could give President Trump the benefit of doubt when he talked about Charlottesville, bleach and hoax. I suspect Ray could provide more concise explanations than I. I will leave it at this, we agree right wing media takes things out of context, edits and distributes bunk. I will add, every bit as well as the left. As exemplified by what happened after President Obama was caught telling the Russia's Medvedev to tell "the Vlad" he would have more latitude after his election.
Hey, Tafhdyd...
Like I said, my buddy in Hawaii and I were watching the same briefing but from different locations. I had to look back through my text files... we were trading shots across the bow about Trump and the task force. Anyway... Mar. 31. Each time Trump brought Fauci to the podium I'd text... that number six... that's the 7th time... etc. You are correct, the briefings from DC stopped, and I don't remember when Cuomo and Newsom halted their briefings. I'm sure other governors and some mayors were following suit for a while.
I disagree with suggestions that Fauci was banished. He's speaking this week with the NIH logo behind him. The NIH is part of the Dept. of Health and Human Services.
Good day Ray,
Maybe I was too harsh on saying Dr. Fauci was banished. I am aware of his appearances and various updates that he has done on various news outlets. I should have clarified it by saying that Trump basically has nothing to do with him as opposed him banishing the Dr.
Rather than whip the poor horse on these pages with cut and paste I have included a link for the time line of the Dr. Fauci - Trump history. If you get a few minutes please take a look and note the way the Dr. tries to take the high ground and the way Donald takes the low. It is obvious that Dr. Fauci is trying to do the best job he can unlike our current president.
usatoday.com: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/28/president-donald-trump-anthony-fauci-timeline-relationship-coronavirus-pandemic/3718797001/
Are we talking about the same Fauci who condemned attendance at Trump rallies but not BLM rioting? The Fauci who praised NY’s response by sending sick seniors back into nursing homes to spread and kill more seniors? The Fauci who said opening schools was a bad idea although kids are not at risk and are not carriers of COVID? The Fauci who in January said COVID was not a major threat? The Fauci who compared COVID to a bad flu? The Fauci who endorsed Tinder hookups? Yeah, Fauci doing the best job he can. If that's Fauci's best, I'd hate to see his worst. Maybe Fauci should be banished, because Fauci's best just isn't good enough. BTW, providing a link to a lamestream fake news media source doesn’t do you any favors in trying to prove a point.
Terrence Y,
You missed a few but definitely made my case better than I. Thank you. If one makes the time to research Dr. Fauci, there is not much there. Unlike, say, Dr. Ben Carson.
https://achievement.org/achiever/anthony-s-fauci-m-d/
https://achievement.org/achiever/benjamin-s-carson/
Terence,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Fauci bad. Blah, Blah, Blah Trump Great. Did you get a supply of crying towels? I heard they are on sale at Target. Real news that was even on Faux News, the SCOTUS threw out the Texas Hail Mary law suit. The election is over! BTW, did you hear about Donald's latest law suit? He is going to sue Time Magazine for naming Biden and Harris as the front cover "Person of the Year" on the grounds that the selection process was fraudulent and rigged.
Tafhdyd,
I'm sorry to hear your wife is not well. Hang in there as best you can. I remember my experience all to well. Seek outside assistance if at all possible. You need to keep yourself well in order to be of service to others.
I thank capitalism for the incentive and the reigning in of bureaucracy that resulted in the rapid development of the COVID-19 vaccines. Now I will pray the vaccines work and the judicial branch of government solves the problem of executive branch overreach.
Wilfred,
Thank you for you thoughts. As for the judicial/executive branches. It is too bad that AG Barr has been acting as a lap dog for Trump the past two years rather than AG for the US. I think he finally realized he might be able to save a little bit of his reputation, if there is any left, when he said there was no election fraud to investigate in direct conflict with Donalds order to go find some.
Hi, Tafhdyd
Sorry to hear your wife is ailing. Take care of her and yourself, my friend. Prayer works.
Tafhdyd,
The way I see it, it's part of the job description. How far back do you want to go? Remember Holder? As far as reputations go, they only matter to the unaccomplished. To be clear, I believe our voting system is broken. But as is generally the case, we will work it out if it really makes a difference. Don't forget, I am one of those that sees government as an institution with different sides competing for elbow room at the money trough. And when it comes to sex, money and egos...all bets are off.
Tafhdyd
Hey... I looked at the info in the link. Yeah, I think we can agree... Dr. Fauci has not been "banished" but there have been plenty of disconnects. Most of them due to Donald being Donald. In the end, it's hard to rattle the good doctor. He knows how important it is for him to stay in the fight, so he does. We're better for it.
Ray,
I appreciate the comment and the time to look at the link. BTW, how are you and the doctors doing? I will have nip of the Lagavulin to toast an amicable conversation.
I tfeel pretty good, thanks (would be better with a shot of Lagavulin).
I've got a cardio procedure on the 21st. If it works, maybe that's a precursor for a great 2021. If not, then we'll chalk it up to 2020 and still look toward Jan. 1 with optimism.
Ray,
Let me know if there is anything I can do for you. wfernandez.jr53@gmail.com
Thanks, Wilfredo!
I got the regular flu in late February. That doctor's visit led to a host of follow-ups and consults. Everything is on track to get better.
Do you still have your recipe for chicken noodle soup?
Mr. Fowler,
I have requisitioned family favorites! :-)
Mr. Fowler,
It is to delicious for me not to mention. The balderdash reportage of the left is once again refuted. The refurbished S.C.O.T.U.S. has ended President Trump's last gasp, MSM has picked up the Biden family story and A.G. Barr has shown himself not be be Trump's "wingman". How 'bout that? As I like to say, the truth is the truth; it's undeniable and inevitable.
Hello Wilfred,
I was delighted to see the SCOTUS toss the case Trump was betting on to save his bacon. In my opinion they gave him a slap in the face and basically said don't tell us what to do. We are a separate branch of government and you are not a king, we do not report to you.
As for AG Barr, I mentioned in a previous comment, not sure what thread, that he could see the writing on the wall and did not want to go down with the ship. He did the right thing with the voting fraud investigation and the Hunter Biden investigation. Naturally the best part of that to me is that it got Trump's knickers in a knot. Hopefully Barr will resign before Trump fires him in his usual vindictive way. As you so rightfully said, the truth is the truth. IMO it is too bad so many of his base don't believe it.
Tafhdyd
We agree on the destination but not the roads that might have been taken. A reference to another of my beliefs; there are usually many roads that lead to the same destination. I think the S.C.O.T.U.S. followed process, which is rooted in jurisprudence. And A.G. Barr values ethics above reputation or ideology. I don't know what to make of Trump's ultimate goal. Is it to feed his ego or is he shining a light on the corruptibility of our voting and ballot counting processes? Or something else? No matter what, I hope he is gone. Not that I believe the baloney coming from his detractors, but because I don't think he can accomplish more than he has. And I could bore you to death with my opinions of everything he has done for the good of the nation. I'll spare you because I know you'll come to it yourself. In private, because it's the truth and you are a critical thinker. BTW, you are welcome to use the email address I provided Ray elsewhere in this thread. It is also my hope that when the time is right, we can arrange a trip for the both of you for some Alaskan adventures.
Yes! Looks like the progressives and the MSM got it wrong... very wrong. Trump appointed originalists to SCOTUS and the court passed on the role of becoming the arbiter between states. Then, the AG showed he is duty bound to apply the law correctly. (Of course, that could be bad news for Hunter... )
Good morning Ray,
I am glad the SCOTUS did go by the law and I hope they continue. We (us on the left) will have to hold judgement until they decide a few more cases dealing with the hot button items of church-state, personal freedoms etc. As for AG Barr, I have to wonder why all of a sudden he has turned over a new leaf. Trump brought him in because of his reputation of being a fixer for Reagan and Bush and his view of presidential powers being dictatorial like Donald believes, thinking of himself as king. We will see what they find about Hunter. If guilty, prosecute him. It is time to get the country back on track. There is too much corruption on both sides and Donald has dominated that field over the last four years.
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