Ensuring every state matters

Mr. Caggiano, first, the fact you say you always seem to be in near total agreement with Jorg Aadahl doesn’t work in your favor. If anything, that will elicit an eye roll and wondering what cut/paste TDS "orange man bad" madness and how many adjectives will be used by Jorg. Second, what makes you think America is a democracy? America has been described as a constitutional republic, or a republic democracy, or other variations, but never just a democracy. Third, are you saying that if a number of states that amounts to 271 electoral votes adopt the compact, then the compact is foisted on all the other states, even though all of their voters didn’t vote for it? That doesn’t sound very “democratic” does it? But maybe the devil is in the details. Either way, this compact will likely mean nothing, just as all challenges to the Electoral College have amounted to.

Thanks for sharing that Mike. I'm surprised how many people still haven't heard of it and it is such a good method for resolving the problem we've had with getting presidents who have received a minority of the vote.

Hello, Mike

Sorry, I didn’t get to the comments section earlier… it’s been a busy day.

The NPVIC is seriously flawed. It has been approved in 16 states plus Washington, DC. for a total of 205 EC votes. That puts NPVIC advocates 65 EC votes shy of their 270 goal. If they could capture the EC votes for the top five swing states, that would give them 272 EC votes. However, as two of those states have Republican majorities, it’s not likely advocates will realize their goal any time soon… if at all.

What are those flaws? Member states can withdraw from the NPVIC compact. If a Republican candidate appears positioned to win a narrow popular vote victory, a compact member state like California could withdraw from the compact. Why would California do that? To prevent the biggest EC vote prize from being added to a Republican’s EC vote total. That kinda defeats the purpose of the compact.

The biggest flaw is constitutionality. We’ve had this discussion before. Willamette Constitutional Law Professor Norman Williams has written, “… it is unconstitutional for states to appoint electors against the wishes of their own state electorate but in accordance with the will of voters outside the state.” You offered Harvard Law Professors Michael Luttig and Lawrence Tribe in rebuttal to support your belief the NPVIC is constitutional.

I could not find either professor providing commentary on whether the NPVIC is constitutional. However, you can easily find them offering other legal opinions while being interviewed on MSNBC. Professor Luttig supports the Colorado Supreme Court decision to remove Trump's name from the Colorado primary ballot. Harvard Law Professor Emeritus Alan Dershowitz, who is a liberal and dislikes Donald Trump, disagrees with the Colorado decision. Harvard Law Professor Noah Feldman also disagrees with Professor Luttig’s position and said so in “The Denver Post” (a left leaning publication).

Professor Tribe does oppose the Electoral College when presidents are elected by garnering more EC votes but not more popular votes. As a result, he claims the current Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision is illegitimate because such a president... Donald Trump... appointed three justices to that court. Professor Tribe’s rationale? He claims Trump is an illegitimate president which means Trump illegitimately appointed three justices to the Supreme Court and that makes the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade ruling invalid. Funny... in the past 200 years, no one thought to challenge the participation of the nine Supreme Court justices appointed by four other presidents elected by garnering a majority of EC votes but not more popular votes.

At a minimum, the NPVIC violates the Constitution's Compact Clause... but there is an answer... and here it is. The framers provided for a way to amend the Constitution. The procedure is not impossible, but it is challenging. If NPVIC advocates want our president selected by a national popular vote, then change the Constitution to eliminate the Electoral College system... instead of trying to circumvent the Constitution.

Hey gang, I need to address Terrence's concern with the idea that the states that adopt the NPVIC don't consider all other states. They do indeed in that they count EVERY vote in EVERY state. That is what comprises the popular vote nationwide. Then and only then do they designate all of their 271 Electoral votes to the winner. So every vote in every state goes into the results. Hardly undemocratic.

Cheers all

Mike, let me help you with you defining the United States as an "American Democracy". The Untied States is not a democracy, We are a "Republic"

"The word “democracy” is found neither in the Declaration of Independence nor in our Constitution. The term “republic,” however, does appear in the Constitution.6"

"American republicanism offers protections from the instability, rashness, impetuosity, and social and political tyranny of democratic politics because it recognizes that the majority does not equal the whole of the community. Republicanism recognizes the valid contributions to the welfare of the community by non- and even counter-majoritarian parts of the community. Indeed, justice demands that, even in a nation rooted in popular consent, non- and counter-majoritarian forces must be blended together. In this way, republicanism protects the minority from unjust majorities and secures the conditions for the political and social freedoms that are the true goal of the American revolution." Heritage Foundation.

Mike, please read so that you too can be informed. https://www.heritage.org/american-founders/report/america-republic-not-democracy

Your welcome opinion but our Founder created the Electoral College to avoid our becoming a "mobocracy" controlled by a few key states. If you don't like it, you can organize a Constitution Convention to change it.

" the present system stifles civic participation and warps the concept of one person, one vote, which is supposed to be the bedrock of American democracy."

Oh boy. Say you have no idea what you are talking about without saying you have no idea what you are talking about. Did you write this LTE with a crayon or Joe Bidens catheter? Total Liberal doublespeak. I'll elaborate. So when you say "stifles civic participation" - what you are really saying is that our voter registration laws are preventing people that you would like to vote - but do not have the right to vote under the Constitution. Then you parlay that with a convoluted virtue signaling statement saying the EC somehow "warps" a supposed "concept" that really means nothing on the surface because obviously one person gets one vote - but when you dig deeper you see your motives are those of subjugation and social engineering. You use guilt and shame to bully other people into doing your bidding or else be ostracized cancelled and punished. Its always all or nothing so there is an absence of reason off the rip. There is no sense to anything you are saying - probably why you and Jorg play checkers and drink all the kool aid while playing paddy cake. This is akin to mob rule - and maybe you should read the Constitution again - we are not a "democracy". When liberals say "a threat to our democracy" - what they really mean is "a threat to our total control over the system and who is allowed to impact it." Its not altruistic - its completely parasitic. Sorry - wont do it and will call it out forever. This is exactly why the Democrats are importing an unbelievable amount of illegal aliens into our country (yes importing) - they are using very vulnerable people that are so desperate and have no choice but to do as they are told (its not their fault) - to make Mr. Mikes vision a reality. You import enough losers into your country to tip the scales and you can control all the people that you don't like. What a world this country has devolved into. We have a senile golem as president while our country is literally burning in front of our very eyes and we are on the precipice of WW3. Ukraine is still getting more money - while our brothers and sisters on Maui are getting forced to store their toxic debris in Olowalu on a cinder cone and downhill from the most important reef in all of the Hawaiian islands (zero media coverage) - but i bet Mr. Mike doesn't care at all about those people. $700 to date for these families and some STILL cant even access that because the FEMA/REDX websites are run on potatoes - but Ukraine (a white supremacist country) gets more billions. These are Biblical times - and we need a strong leader at the helm of our country - and thats not Joe Biden. I would riddle Mr. Mike what is the real "bedrock" of American society? Because it wasn't voting for policies that become ripe for abuse and corruption - it was Revolution and a collective love for the right for everyone to live their lives as they want without outside interference - meaning BIG government. My family line has been here in America since the Georgia Colony - back in those days around 70-80% of Americans food supply came from their back yard - Liberals dont want that - they want you completely dependent on the "system" that seeks to subjugate everyone with a backbone or love for God. They want to control the food supply as well as access to cheap energy - this is why they are pushing the most ridiculous hoax of all time that seems to mutate every decade "acid rain" or "global warming" or "climate change" or "troll goo" whats next? The logic of liberals is always so infantile - so their motives and intentions are easy enough to break down that my Bengal Cat could articulate them to a human audience. They don't care at all about you - your health - your family - your safety - nothing. All a modern day liberal in California cares about is preventing you from doing what they dont want you to do -a selfish individual - for by and large nonsensical and hysterical reasonings.

Wow. Little Foot, I need to get my fire extinguisher. I'm really sorry to have caused you to go full Vesuvius on us. Now we have the folks on Maui who have indeed been caught in a bureaucratic maze and need our help, but to hit on just about every grievance imaginable you have strayed off the reservation in my opinion. My main point is that in the flawed non system of electing folks, we have nearly all the campaign cash and attention being spend on a small handfull of 'swing states' to the detriment of the rest of the nation. The blue voters in Texas and the red voters in California are all but invisible. To have all voters in all states actually be considered valued citizens and be courted by our national politicians, I can think of no better way than to actually have each and every vote count in the outcome. It's really that simple.

I hope that doesn't 'ignite' anyone else.

cheers

Dear Not So Common, I think I get the drift of your quote "republicanism protects the minority from unjust majorities". That's the purpose of the stated rights that are enumerated in our the Constitution. It means the rights of all need to be taken into consideration. That is EXACTLY what does not happen with our present non-system of chaos with the Electoral 'college'. We're not putting the basics rights of others on the ballot. We're putting the preferences for our leadership on it. There, you do need to establish who comes in first and who second (loses). So Heritage seems to be mixing things up a bit.

OK Ray, I'll try and address your points. Going backwards the ranked choice concept would be applied to the down ballot choices not the National selections. The national vote is just that. A selection of the person with the most votes, period. The reason for going for the NPVIC is that it's far easier to accomplish and keeps to the principle of equality of preferences that any voting mechanism tries to achieve. As to its constitutionality let's say we'll have to defer to the court outcomes down the pike. We of course have our favorite legal experts but our preferences won't cut it. As far as states coming and going at their pleasure from one voting period to the next flies in the face of any rational legal framework. So that's the best I can do for you good buddy.

The reason for all this Republican nonsense, is obvious: they cannot swallow the fact that the majority of voters don’t want another EC-minority selected, incompetent Republican in the WH! The better educated, and more honest voters have seen enough irreparable damage already. What it all boils down to, is that each vote should carry the same weight, not only the majority votes in the EC-infected states! That would be better for everybody, including those with too tight-fitting MAGA hats to grasp the obvious. Simple as that!