Editor,
Letter writers such as Mr. Aadahl continue to rail against the Electoral College, primarily because the system worked against their candidates. One wonders if they would be so passionately opposed if the results were reversed.
Editor,
Letter writers such as Mr. Aadahl continue to rail against the Electoral College, primarily because the system worked against their candidates. One wonders if they would be so passionately opposed if the results were reversed.
The real problem with the current process is that, because of the winner-take-all system, there are only about seven states in play — the rest are conceded before the first vote is counted.
The only reason a candidate comes to California is to collect a check.
The current system creates voter apathy from voters supporting both parties.
The solution is both easy and impossible. If the system were to be changed to a percentage process —if you win 60% of the popular vote you get 60% of the electoral votes. Now all states would be in play. Now it would matter if a candidate gets 55% or 60% of the popular vote.
This would also maintain the original intent of having an electoral college. Such a change would have to happen on a state-by-state basis as that’s how we got to the current system — the states voted for the winner-take-all process.
How likely is it that our Democratic controlled legislature would consider such a change? The end result would be that they would lose a few electoral votes to the Republicans. When you see a flying pig let me know.
Steven Howard
Redwood City
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(16) comments
Just eliminate the entire Electoral College all together, and only let the direct votes count: add all Republican votes in all states, and all Democratic votes in all states. Whichever side has the most votes, wins the US presidency. Simple as that. Even the minority in each state contributes to the total, not like we have today, when Republican votes in Democratic controlled states don’t count at all, and vice versa.
Thanks, Jorg, for a cogent argument in favor of a First Past the Post election system, however, a direct vote count may not be the "simple as that" solution you are suggesting. The emergence of serial plurality elected candidates would mean persons not supported by a majority of voters would be installed in our presidency. As a result, your version of "winner take all" elections would produce decidedly undemocratic outcomes. In 2016, Hillary Clinton tallied a shade under 3 million more popular votes than Donald Trump. She won California by more than 4 million votes. So, under your FPTP system, the majority votes in 30 states would be set aside because more people in just one state voted for your candidate.
Here's a thought... what if EC votes were proportional in all 50 states? Presently, the RNC concedes California every four years even before balloting begins across the country. The DNC... knowing it has a lock on all California's EC votes... spends its time fundraising in California not campaigning. Yes, the swing states would still be critical to getting elected, but the cumulative effect of flipping districts across the country could offset the disproportionate influence of a handful of states. Maybe.
Agree, Ray! That would at least be a step in the right direction.
I always seem to be in near total agreement with Jorg Aadahl. Once again the discussion of the antiquated Electoral Collage rears its head, hopefully soon to be chopped off. Steven Howard makes a good point that the present system stifles civic participation and warps the concept of one person one vote, which is supposed to be the bedrock of American democracy. The “National Popular Vote Interstate Compact” has been in the works for quite some time now. I'm surprised Steven hasn't heard of it. It's far easier to achieve and accomplishes exactly what he hopes for. Once again I'll summarize it. Once the number of states that amount to 271 electoral votes adopts it then and only then it goes into effect. That being that all the electoral votes of all those states automatically go to the winner of the national popular vote. There you have it. You don't need all the states to adopt it which would make Steven's proposal also work but without needing all the states to buy in. It's already in effect in
California and enough states to reach 195 or some such. Not that much more to go. Then all candidates would have to pitch their wares to all voters in all states as every single vote in every single state matters equally. So “there ya' go pilgrim”.
Mike Caggiano
234 Elm St. #102
San Mateo, Ca. 94401
P. 650-274-1240
Hello, Mike
It looks like 16 states plus Washington, DC have approved the NPVIC representing 205 Electoral College votes. That means the movement is 65 votes shy of its goal. Interestingly, Barack won Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin in 2012, but Hillary lost those same states in 2016. They total 67 EC votes. If the Democratic Party could get the NPVIC approved in those five states, it would achieve its goal of controlling presidential elections.
All but Iowa can be considered a swing state, and as Ohio has a slightly higher percentage of Republican voters than Iowa, it doesn't seem likely the EC votes from Iowa and Ohio will find their way into the DNC's EC column in the near future. Additionally, of those five states needed to reach the 270 EC mark, only Michigan's state legislature is poised to approve the NPVIC.
If the NPVIC is approved, it will be challenged on the grounds of constitutionality. Willamette Constitutional Law Professor Norman Williams avers "it is unconstitutional for states to appoint electors against the wishes of their own state electorate but in accordance with the will of voters outside the state." Professor Williams points out another concern, i.e., NPVIC states can withdraw from the compact. Why would they do so? Well, if a Republican candidate appears to be in a position to win the national popular vote by a narrow margin, a state like California could withdraw so its EC votes would not be tallied for a Republican candidate. Can a Republican win the national vote total? Take a look at current polling.
Ray, I think you're are 'pre-worrying' the problem. I haven't seen any real arguments that the NPVIC wouldn't pass constitutional muster. Also I doubt the states could come and go as they please. That argument makes no legal sense to me. I believe Michigan did in fact join. If that's the case then yes it's over 200 and hopefully within striking distance in the near future. That would indeed make all votes count and the election would have to be fought in all the 50 states not just the 'battleground' ones. Nothing but good can come with the end of the Electoral Collage.
Good morning, Mike
I don't know... Law Professor Williams, who has been published in the country's top law reviews, is certain the NPVIC is unconstitutional. Yes, states can withdraw from the compact before the election. Why would they do so? In the scenario where a Republican candidate holds a slight edge in a close election, he or she would get the big EC prize... California. Unless the California legislature withdrew from the compact. Then, the big EC prize would go to the Democratic Party candidate which could tip the EC scale against the candidate with the greater number of popular votes. BTW... it doesn't have to be California... other blue states could have the same effect. The Democratic Party is pushing the NPVIC; states approving the compact break along partisan lines. If the compact's workaround the EC looks like a Republican will win and pulling out of the compact will change an election's outcome... that will happen. I disagree that an election "would have to be fought in all the 50 states not just the 'battleground' ones." A candidate who commands blue state bastions can ignore most of "fly over" America.
Obviously we'll have to let things play out. I still think that believing a state could just say 'I'm out' and jump back to the legislation that they had before they entered into the compact is extrordinarlly bizarre and not at all in the realm of the possible if you think we live in a rules based order. You really need to check your jurisprudence guage on that one. Let's say we'll agree to disagree 'till then good buddy.
Mike... states can withdraw from the compact. Let's say for sake of argument those five states mentioned in my earlier email have joined the NPVIC. California would have almost five months from today to withdraw from the NPVIC so its electors could be assigned to the DNC's nominee on election day in November 2024. That would mean California's EC votes would not go to the RNC's nominee if he or she won the popular vote. However, if California chose to withdraw after June 5, its votes would still go to the candidate with the most popular votes. Now, let's acknowledge the real GOP elephant in the room... DJT. In the above scenario, if DJT was positioned to win the popular vote, don't you think blue state NPVIC members would bail out to ensure the DNC's candidate would get their EC votes? In the end, even under the NPVIC, the states retain the right to choose their electors... not the NPVIC.
At a minimum, the NPVIC violates the Constitution's Compact Clause... but there is an answer... and here it is. The framers provided for a way to amend the Constitution. The procedure is not impossible, but it is challenging. If NPVIC advocates want our president selected by a national popular vote, then change the Constitution to eliminate the Electoral College system... instead of trying to circumvent the Constitution.
Rule of thumb, if the left is against it, then "it" must be right, working and an obstacle to their marxist totalitarian beliefs in how a government should be ALL powerful.
The United States of America was founded on dissent. American colonists waged a war for the principle that no one—no king, no lord, no president—held the right to rule without the consent of the people. This demand for popular sovereignty grew out of the experience of the founders, who understood the power granted by liberty. It also sprang, in part, from the actions and political philosophies of enslaved men and women, who contested the right of any person to dominate another. Freedom was revolutionary, contagious, and incomplete.
All men are created equal . . . with certain unalienable Rights . . . whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.
And now 200+ years later the power hungry left are now circling back to subvert our way of electing so they can have full control and power over the people. The electoral college is only an obstacle to the left’s unbridled thirst for full power.
https://www.searchablemuseum.com/the-founding-of-america
Uncommon: How can you be considered “equal”, if you are denied participation when the EC eliminates all minority voters in each state from contributing to the nation’s total vote count?
Do I need to remind you again about the damage done by the last two, incompetent, lying, EC-minority selected, Republican WH participants, a lasting damage we are still paying dearly for, and which we may not recover from in our lifetime? Hard to understand with a too tight MAGA hat?
Kind of like California which has designed a system (ranked choice) that prevents Republicans from being even considered on a ballot? And how are minority denied participation? Requiring an ID to vote? An ID to buy a beer, An ID to recycle plastics in Hayward? An ID to fly? The State of CA is 65.3% minority, so how are minority votes denied in CA? Maybe you mean Texas which is 57.5% minority?
Regardless, the elector college prevents maniacal states like CA and NY who have brained washed children from completing controlling the United States. The EC allows smaller states a say in government so they are not rail loaded by the social global warming nuts who want full control over people's thoughts, full control over children through public education, full control from their appointed black robes who have no interest in applying the law or the constitution, full control over the type of vehicle that one drives, full control over the type of appliance one can use and full control over every aspect of one's life.
MAGA = Make America Great Again, somehow you, Biden and company have a problem with making America great again? It's not make White people great again, it says AMERICA and in the conservative Republican world that means everyone who is willing to work hard, make responsible decisions regardless of color or sexual identity. Not wanting people to vote three times, or asking for an ID is not disenfranchising, it's common sense which is obviously "not so common"
Wow, Not so Common sees the ultimate danger in one person one vote. Hmmm.
Wow I have to search to put things in chronological order. All I'll repeat at this point is that Ray's legal arguments have more holes than my speghetti strainer. Sorry.
Mike... they're not my legal arguments. They are the reasoned arguments of legal scholars. Perhaps you can provide your reasoned arguments why you believe the NPVIC would pass Constitutional muster?
I'll leave the legal points to the Michael Luttigs and Lawrence Tribes to handle. I'll just go with the logic, which I've already put out there.
Cheers all
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