When are going to start calling what President Trump and the Republicans are doing what it is — treason? After some 40 failed meritless lawsuits, unsuccessful recounts and untold false tweets and statements, they are no longer “exhausting their legal remedies.” They are now fomenting insurrection, attempting to overthrow our democracy. They are entitled to their opinions, baseless as they may be, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
The true outcome of the election is clear: Trump lost and Biden won. In the words of their favorite “justice,” Antonin Scalia, “Get over it.” It is time for the rest of us to stand up in defense of the Constitution and our democracy.
When Al Gore went all the way to the Supreme Court with the Florida vote in 2000, were you saying the same thing Mr. Paine? We will get over it when we darn well want to get over it. I don't know who told you this or not, Trump supporters don't listen to people such as yourself so I really don't know who you are talking to in your letter. Mr. Paine, you stay on your side of the road, we will stay on ours. We are very proud of the 72 million legitimate voters that came out to support president Trump, win or lose, his popularity is only growing. Trump is using every legal option available to seek justice in our voting system, time for you to get over it.
PH: How can you state "72 million legitimate voters that came out to support president Trump", - when Trump himself keeps claiming voter fraud? For the majority of us, it is hard to believe the 72M were "legit". Can so many be so easily fooled?
Did you see any reporting on Republican rallies near the end of the campaign? Did you read about the increase in minority voters supporting the Republican ticket? Are you aware many moderate Democrats and plenty of independents reject the progressive agenda waiting in the wings?
I don’t think you got my point, Ray! Trump is the cheater and liar par excellence, who in his not so subtle way leads his followers by example. It is also the Republicans who try their very best to make it difficult for many voters to exercise their constitutional rights, not the Democrats! The logical assumption is that Trump’s 72M may be overstated, and Biden’s 81M understated, - not the other way around. And who keeps talking about “voter fraud”? How would Trump know, - unless, of course, - he knows!
Blah, blah, blah, another day, another letter about Trump bad, Trump supporters bad. Mr. Paine, I hate to tell you but facts show the election isn’t over, regardless of your hyperbole and opinion. BTW, if you want treason, research Obama’s activities regarding Iran.
Once again it's blah, blah, blah with nothing to back it up. For a year you have been throwing the word out there and never show the facts you claim. Opinions by the likes of lap dog Hannity, OANN, etc. do not count as facts. BTW, in case you missed it they said Donald is going to sue Time Magazine for putting Biden and Harris on the cover as "Person of the Year". He claims the selection process was fraudulent and rigged.
It's over, Terry. O-V-E-R. Turn off Fox, OAN, and Parler. It's bad for your mental health. Biden has won so many times now he should be the 67th President!
The TDS-twins with their usual blather trying to convince themselves the election is over. Sorry Taffy Dave and Tommy Tee, your bullying doesn’t change facts.
I guess you didn't read the first two sentences of my comment. Once again you claim facts but never show any. I give you facts but you don't believe them because they don't come from your right wing conspiracy sites. BTW, did you stock up on crying towels while they are on sale?
Grandpa Taffy, my facts are contained in the Constitution and how the Presidential election process works. I don’t recall the Constitution saying the lamestream media selected the President. Or you or anyone else bellyaching about the election being over as being able to select the President. Aren’t you the one whose family has been in the US for over 200 years? If so, did you not learn about the US Constitution? Did you think if you could spell Constitution that you understood the contents? Please educate yourself. It’s never too late. BTW, I tried buying crying towels to distribute to melted snowflakes but I heard you bought them all up. But thanks for the reminder.
Excellent letter, Mr. Paine. It's almost six weeks post election, and Trump and the clown car of crazy lawyers and their baseless claims are nothing but fodder for SNL. Unfortunately for Trump, the SCOTUS which he stacked in hopes of saving his butt, ruled appropriately. The Republican enablers are an embarrassment to the country. History will not be kind to them and The Donald.
As Terence would say, blah, blah, blah no evidence, baseless claims, outlandish conspiracy theories. Tin foil hat sales are big this holiday season.
I get your call to "get over it." We're hearing a lot of that, lately. And I also get the retort from conservatives that Democrats pushed an election challenge all the way to the Supreme Court. But I have to ask... did the left ever "get over it" after the 2016 election?
Turning toward your claim that treason has been committed. Treason occupies an interesting place in our Constitution. It may be charged against an American citizen who is "levying war" against the United States or a citizen who is adhering to our enemies and "giving them aid and comfort.” I get it. You don't like Donald Trump's challenges to the election results. OK. But challenging the results is not treason.
One of the reasons the founders made the definition of treason so specific was to preclude spurious claims of treason. You may disagree with Republicans challenging election results. You may feel they are wrong for doing so. It may make you angry... but it is not treason.
I get your point. You doubt that 74M persons voted for Donald Trump, but ignore reasons that erase that doubt. Underlying your doubt is your belief that those 74M votes had to be the result of cheating. Can you explain where and how that happened?
Some of his claims that voting totals for his opponent were padded are based on persons present during vote tabulation. That's part of the Republican argument.
You have suggested Republican totals were padded. So the question remains... where and how did that happen?
I am not sure if the word treason is appropriate yet but I would not be surprised if it applies in the future. Trump knows that he is backed into the corner and is in hock up to his plastic hair and if he loses power he will have no leverage with places like Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.
As he has done in the past he will sell out America to save his own neck.
Much has been said about him being a dictator wannabe and turning America into a second rate nation no longer admired around the world. After a quick read on the web I found a couple of quotes from across the pond.
From Marius Dragomir, Director of the Center for Media, Data and Society in Budapest.
“America was the model and the dream for Eastern Europe, especially after 1990. But it’s not anymore,” he says, “especially after Trump.”
Seeing Trump place family and friends in positions of power while continuing to make money from official visits to his hotels and resorts was reminiscent to Dragomir of the kleptocracies that emerged after the breakup of the Soviet Union. His colleagues kept asking, “‘Is it really possible for the American president to do whatever he wants and to mix his business interests with the position he has, to do bad things with impunity?’ We are used to that in Eastern Europe — but to see it in America was strange,” he says. “People lost the appreciation they once had for America” — all the more over the past month when Trump went after anyone who failed to bend to his insistence that he’d won. The difference, says Dragomir, is that somewhere like Romania or Bulgaria, Trump probably would have prevailed.
From Brussels based Roland Freudenstein, Director of the Wlfried Martens Centre for European Studies.
“On the one hand, the U.S. democracy redeemed itself in the eyes of Europe because the madman was not reelected. On the other hand, there’s a huge discrediting of the U.S. democracy by the incumbent who is basically hollowing out the democratic process from the inside.” Trump’s refusal to accept the results of the election is not just weakening American democracy, Freudenstein says, but also democratic governments all over the world.
I think this question kinda got lost in the shuffle. To you... We have not heard from you this week about "uneducated" Trump voters... are they the ones you are claiming were fooled?
Same as what Trump claims the other way, - and with same kind of evidence! However, as I have said so many times: more likely that the Republicans cheat, following foolishly a cheater and liar like Trump! Get the logic?
Latin for Tafhdyd the Great. I looked it up on an online translator. And you are a great thinker and writer. I always look forward to your comments.
Down to business...
Treason. I don't think that discussion is going anywhere. Anyone supporting the notion that the Donald is giving comfort and aid to the enemy for placing "family and friends in positions of power while continuing to make money from official visits to his hotels and resorts" might want to take a close look at the Biden family. The feds have been doing just that for quite some time. We'll see where that goes...
Thanks for doing some research re: European media. Messrs. Dragomir and Freudenstein are credible journalists... unlike 90+% of MSM reporters. Do you think more than four years of biased reporting from the US media has had an effect on persons living in other countries? Last weekend, a report about the assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist Moshen Fakhrizadeh linked to Israel featured protestors doing what? Burning photos of Donald Trump... Do you think the Mossad moved forward with their plan only after getting approval from our Oval Office? Or do you think it may have something to do with Iran's nuclear weapon development program and official statements from Iranian leadership that they want to wipe Israel off the map? Remember, when Iraq got too close to getting nukes, the Israelis took out their program with surgical precision. Yet, our president is blamed for a Mossad mission. I can hardly wait to hear Eric Swalwell blame the White House for his tryst with a Chinese operative. Whad'ya think... is Eric closer to China than Hunter?
I will humbly thank you for the Maximus description but add that I think it is a bit of a stretch. I try to look around and find info to discuss in a sensible way without opening my mouth wide enough to put both feet in.
As for the four years of biased reporting and the other countries I will claim ignorance on that one because I don’t know the sources they use. I know the local media is biased right or left with very little in the middle but I can’t speak for those across the pond. I check out BBC and some other sources once in a while but that is about it. If they actually listen to our news more than theirs it probably does have an influence.
I haven’t delved into the Swalwell story in depth but it is my understanding that the FBI or other intelligence agencies have said nothing was compromised but they did warn him that she was suspect. About the same time she took off for China and never came back and that was about 5 years ago. I am sure the left side of the radio dial says nothing here, move along and the right side says definitely guilty by association.
You know, I paid $20 for a one-month all-access subscription to this newspaper so I could read all of the comments and respond to some, hoping to maybe, just maybe, interject some words of wisdom from a long, long life. I've decided it's not worth the twenty bucks. Trump supporters are still spewing the falsehoods and conspiracy theories this "president" has been tossing out since 2015 and attacking others who don't agree with their distorted national views; Biden supporters are trying to be civil in the face of these attacks, but their views are not welcome and the attacks get brutal, so they often do not succeed. I've never seen such division in this town. There have always been differences of opinion, but we always agreed on the same facts. It appears those days are gone and, I'm afraid, don't seem to be returning. I remember San Mateo when we recognized everyone walking down the street and we'd stop and chat. I remember San Mateo when we respected each other. I remember San Mateo when El Camino was a 2-lane road, when 92 didn't yet exist and was the setting for horseback riding lessons on the hill. I remember when Foster City wasn't even a glint in the eyes of developers. It makes me so very sad to see what has happened to a town I love. Since this will be my last posting, I'd like to ask everyone to remember that we are all equal, regardless of our opinions. Civil discourse is the backbone of our democracy, so please don't attack one another. What my mother taught me is still true: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Please keep this in mind in your discussions, and maybe we'll all be able to find something to agree on. Thank you for listening. Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a happy Holiday Season. May God bless all of you in the new year.
Not everyone who contributes to the comments section attacks those with a different point of view. And I believe a way to get to that civil discourse you cherish is for more folks like you to express their opinions honestly and without regret.
Ms. Old San Matean - I’m sorry you’re not renewing your subscription, but where else could you get such entertainment for $5/month? It’s funny that you write, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.” yet you’ve already written not so nice things about your great President Trump and his supporters a few sentences in your “retirement” speech. What my mother taught me is that if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. I’d like to see you back in the kitchen with nice things to say, preferably. However, if you don’t renew, it’s probably okay as your TDS-viewpoints are well represented by others. Merry Christmas and God bless you (although those wishes are verboten in some circles).
Thanks, Tommy. Could you also encourage Ms. Old San Matean to crack open her wallet for a one-year subscription? She should be able to get by with the $5/month rate and she’d be able to read the most enjoyable parts of the DJ – the comments. If I ever run into her, I’ll buy her a donut and a cup of coffee to help alleviate her expenses. A Merry Xmas to you and your family. Our mask and social distancing optional Xmas party is a go for next week. BTW, when are you going to start name calling again? I’ve got a number of new ones with your name on them, literally.
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(41) comments
When Al Gore went all the way to the Supreme Court with the Florida vote in 2000, were you saying the same thing Mr. Paine? We will get over it when we darn well want to get over it. I don't know who told you this or not, Trump supporters don't listen to people such as yourself so I really don't know who you are talking to in your letter. Mr. Paine, you stay on your side of the road, we will stay on ours. We are very proud of the 72 million legitimate voters that came out to support president Trump, win or lose, his popularity is only growing. Trump is using every legal option available to seek justice in our voting system, time for you to get over it.
PH: How can you state "72 million legitimate voters that came out to support president Trump", - when Trump himself keeps claiming voter fraud? For the majority of us, it is hard to believe the 72M were "legit". Can so many be so easily fooled?
Hello, Jorg
Did you see any reporting on Republican rallies near the end of the campaign? Did you read about the increase in minority voters supporting the Republican ticket? Are you aware many moderate Democrats and plenty of independents reject the progressive agenda waiting in the wings?
No one was fooled...
I don’t think you got my point, Ray! Trump is the cheater and liar par excellence, who in his not so subtle way leads his followers by example. It is also the Republicans who try their very best to make it difficult for many voters to exercise their constitutional rights, not the Democrats! The logical assumption is that Trump’s 72M may be overstated, and Biden’s 81M understated, - not the other way around. And who keeps talking about “voter fraud”? How would Trump know, - unless, of course, - he knows!
And, "no one fooled"? Yeah, right ...
Christopher to son, Andrew to Patrick Henry. LOL
Andrew Conway
BIO
Tax payer advocate Registered Independent American Patriot
HOME TOWN
San Mateo
He's not trying hard to disguise himself.
Blah, blah, blah, another day, another letter about Trump bad, Trump supporters bad. Mr. Paine, I hate to tell you but facts show the election isn’t over, regardless of your hyperbole and opinion. BTW, if you want treason, research Obama’s activities regarding Iran.
Terence,
Once again it's blah, blah, blah with nothing to back it up. For a year you have been throwing the word out there and never show the facts you claim. Opinions by the likes of lap dog Hannity, OANN, etc. do not count as facts. BTW, in case you missed it they said Donald is going to sue Time Magazine for putting Biden and Harris on the cover as "Person of the Year". He claims the selection process was fraudulent and rigged.
Taf---look up "butt-hurt."
It's over, Terry. O-V-E-R. Turn off Fox, OAN, and Parler. It's bad for your mental health. Biden has won so many times now he should be the 67th President!
The TDS-twins with their usual blather trying to convince themselves the election is over. Sorry Taffy Dave and Tommy Tee, your bullying doesn’t change facts.
WHO is trying to convince themselves the election is not over? You and Trump! LOL
Terence,
I guess you didn't read the first two sentences of my comment. Once again you claim facts but never show any. I give you facts but you don't believe them because they don't come from your right wing conspiracy sites. BTW, did you stock up on crying towels while they are on sale?
Blah, blah, blah...lol
Grandpa Taffy, my facts are contained in the Constitution and how the Presidential election process works. I don’t recall the Constitution saying the lamestream media selected the President. Or you or anyone else bellyaching about the election being over as being able to select the President. Aren’t you the one whose family has been in the US for over 200 years? If so, did you not learn about the US Constitution? Did you think if you could spell Constitution that you understood the contents? Please educate yourself. It’s never too late. BTW, I tried buying crying towels to distribute to melted snowflakes but I heard you bought them all up. But thanks for the reminder.
Excellent letter, Mr. Paine. It's almost six weeks post election, and Trump and the clown car of crazy lawyers and their baseless claims are nothing but fodder for SNL. Unfortunately for Trump, the SCOTUS which he stacked in hopes of saving his butt, ruled appropriately. The Republican enablers are an embarrassment to the country. History will not be kind to them and The Donald.
As Terence would say, blah, blah, blah no evidence, baseless claims, outlandish conspiracy theories. Tin foil hat sales are big this holiday season.
Hey, Tom
I get your call to "get over it." We're hearing a lot of that, lately. And I also get the retort from conservatives that Democrats pushed an election challenge all the way to the Supreme Court. But I have to ask... did the left ever "get over it" after the 2016 election?
Turning toward your claim that treason has been committed. Treason occupies an interesting place in our Constitution. It may be charged against an American citizen who is "levying war" against the United States or a citizen who is adhering to our enemies and "giving them aid and comfort.” I get it. You don't like Donald Trump's challenges to the election results. OK. But challenging the results is not treason.
One of the reasons the founders made the definition of treason so specific was to preclude spurious claims of treason. You may disagree with Republicans challenging election results. You may feel they are wrong for doing so. It may make you angry... but it is not treason.
Hi, Jorg
I get your point. You doubt that 74M persons voted for Donald Trump, but ignore reasons that erase that doubt. Underlying your doubt is your belief that those 74M votes had to be the result of cheating. Can you explain where and how that happened?
Ask Trump how and where he was cheated, - he knows more about the art of cheating than I do!
Some of his claims that voting totals for his opponent were padded are based on persons present during vote tabulation. That's part of the Republican argument.
You have suggested Republican totals were padded. So the question remains... where and how did that happen?
Another JUNC (Jorg’s Umpteenth Non-responsive Chaff) entry. Par for the course, I knew Jorg was afraid to answer Ray.
We have not heard from you this week about "uneducated" Trump voters... are they the ones you are claiming were fooled?
Question directed to Jorg not Terence...
Mr. Paine,
I am not sure if the word treason is appropriate yet but I would not be surprised if it applies in the future. Trump knows that he is backed into the corner and is in hock up to his plastic hair and if he loses power he will have no leverage with places like Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.
As he has done in the past he will sell out America to save his own neck.
Much has been said about him being a dictator wannabe and turning America into a second rate nation no longer admired around the world. After a quick read on the web I found a couple of quotes from across the pond.
From Marius Dragomir, Director of the Center for Media, Data and Society in Budapest.
“America was the model and the dream for Eastern Europe, especially after 1990. But it’s not anymore,” he says, “especially after Trump.”
Seeing Trump place family and friends in positions of power while continuing to make money from official visits to his hotels and resorts was reminiscent to Dragomir of the kleptocracies that emerged after the breakup of the Soviet Union. His colleagues kept asking, “‘Is it really possible for the American president to do whatever he wants and to mix his business interests with the position he has, to do bad things with impunity?’ We are used to that in Eastern Europe — but to see it in America was strange,” he says. “People lost the appreciation they once had for America” — all the more over the past month when Trump went after anyone who failed to bend to his insistence that he’d won. The difference, says Dragomir, is that somewhere like Romania or Bulgaria, Trump probably would have prevailed.
From Brussels based Roland Freudenstein, Director of the Wlfried Martens Centre for European Studies.
“On the one hand, the U.S. democracy redeemed itself in the eyes of Europe because the madman was not reelected. On the other hand, there’s a huge discrediting of the U.S. democracy by the incumbent who is basically hollowing out the democratic process from the inside.” Trump’s refusal to accept the results of the election is not just weakening American democracy, Freudenstein says, but also democratic governments all over the world.
Blah, blah, blah, another day, another Trump bad diatribe based on fake news from Taffy Dave. Next nothingburger, please.
Tafhdyd: Second, and then some by Scandinavian media!
Hi, Jorg
Check my reply sent four minutes later.
I think this question kinda got lost in the shuffle. To you... We have not heard from you this week about "uneducated" Trump voters... are they the ones you are claiming were fooled?
Oh, and this one, too... You have suggested Republican totals were padded. So the question remains... where and how did that happen?
Same as what Trump claims the other way, - and with same kind of evidence! However, as I have said so many times: more likely that the Republicans cheat, following foolishly a cheater and liar like Trump! Get the logic?
Tafhdydicus Maximus
Latin for Tafhdyd the Great. I looked it up on an online translator. And you are a great thinker and writer. I always look forward to your comments.
Down to business...
Treason. I don't think that discussion is going anywhere. Anyone supporting the notion that the Donald is giving comfort and aid to the enemy for placing "family and friends in positions of power while continuing to make money from official visits to his hotels and resorts" might want to take a close look at the Biden family. The feds have been doing just that for quite some time. We'll see where that goes...
Thanks for doing some research re: European media. Messrs. Dragomir and Freudenstein are credible journalists... unlike 90+% of MSM reporters. Do you think more than four years of biased reporting from the US media has had an effect on persons living in other countries? Last weekend, a report about the assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist Moshen Fakhrizadeh linked to Israel featured protestors doing what? Burning photos of Donald Trump... Do you think the Mossad moved forward with their plan only after getting approval from our Oval Office? Or do you think it may have something to do with Iran's nuclear weapon development program and official statements from Iranian leadership that they want to wipe Israel off the map? Remember, when Iraq got too close to getting nukes, the Israelis took out their program with surgical precision. Yet, our president is blamed for a Mossad mission. I can hardly wait to hear Eric Swalwell blame the White House for his tryst with a Chinese operative. Whad'ya think... is Eric closer to China than Hunter?
Hello Ray,
I will humbly thank you for the Maximus description but add that I think it is a bit of a stretch. I try to look around and find info to discuss in a sensible way without opening my mouth wide enough to put both feet in.
As for the four years of biased reporting and the other countries I will claim ignorance on that one because I don’t know the sources they use. I know the local media is biased right or left with very little in the middle but I can’t speak for those across the pond. I check out BBC and some other sources once in a while but that is about it. If they actually listen to our news more than theirs it probably does have an influence.
I haven’t delved into the Swalwell story in depth but it is my understanding that the FBI or other intelligence agencies have said nothing was compromised but they did warn him that she was suspect. About the same time she took off for China and never came back and that was about 5 years ago. I am sure the left side of the radio dial says nothing here, move along and the right side says definitely guilty by association.
Dear Jorg...
Me: Where and how did Republicans pad voting totals?
You: Same as what Trump claims the other way... and with same kind of evidence!
You: Get the logic?
Me: Yes... it's circular.
No, that's not circular logic! That's straight logic! Back to school, Ray!
But, if it makes you feel better, have it your way. This exchange is too silly for me and not worth my time.
Classic... "This is nonsense and a waste of time." Scurry away...
You know, I paid $20 for a one-month all-access subscription to this newspaper so I could read all of the comments and respond to some, hoping to maybe, just maybe, interject some words of wisdom from a long, long life. I've decided it's not worth the twenty bucks. Trump supporters are still spewing the falsehoods and conspiracy theories this "president" has been tossing out since 2015 and attacking others who don't agree with their distorted national views; Biden supporters are trying to be civil in the face of these attacks, but their views are not welcome and the attacks get brutal, so they often do not succeed. I've never seen such division in this town. There have always been differences of opinion, but we always agreed on the same facts. It appears those days are gone and, I'm afraid, don't seem to be returning. I remember San Mateo when we recognized everyone walking down the street and we'd stop and chat. I remember San Mateo when we respected each other. I remember San Mateo when El Camino was a 2-lane road, when 92 didn't yet exist and was the setting for horseback riding lessons on the hill. I remember when Foster City wasn't even a glint in the eyes of developers. It makes me so very sad to see what has happened to a town I love. Since this will be my last posting, I'd like to ask everyone to remember that we are all equal, regardless of our opinions. Civil discourse is the backbone of our democracy, so please don't attack one another. What my mother taught me is still true: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Please keep this in mind in your discussions, and maybe we'll all be able to find something to agree on. Thank you for listening. Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a happy Holiday Season. May God bless all of you in the new year.
Sorry to see you go...
Not everyone who contributes to the comments section attacks those with a different point of view. And I believe a way to get to that civil discourse you cherish is for more folks like you to express their opinions honestly and without regret.
Merry Christmas to you and your household!
Old San Mateam,
I agree with Ray's comment.
I will add that two things needed for a good discussion are common sense and an open mind. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have either.
Ms. Old San Matean - I’m sorry you’re not renewing your subscription, but where else could you get such entertainment for $5/month? It’s funny that you write, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.” yet you’ve already written not so nice things about your great President Trump and his supporters a few sentences in your “retirement” speech. What my mother taught me is that if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. I’d like to see you back in the kitchen with nice things to say, preferably. However, if you don’t renew, it’s probably okay as your TDS-viewpoints are well represented by others. Merry Christmas and God bless you (although those wishes are verboten in some circles).
Terence--I agree 100%! Your comments are worth much more than the $5/month. Highly entertaining.
Terence--p.s. Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Thanks, Tommy. Could you also encourage Ms. Old San Matean to crack open her wallet for a one-year subscription? She should be able to get by with the $5/month rate and she’d be able to read the most enjoyable parts of the DJ – the comments. If I ever run into her, I’ll buy her a donut and a cup of coffee to help alleviate her expenses. A Merry Xmas to you and your family. Our mask and social distancing optional Xmas party is a go for next week. BTW, when are you going to start name calling again? I’ve got a number of new ones with your name on them, literally.
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