This letter is in response to Michael Oberg’s letter in the Oct. 16 issue of the Daily Journal. Mr. Oberg states that the agreement to end our presence in Afghanistan was signed by President Trump. That is true, and is one of the best decisions Trump made while in office. Mr. Oberg then goes on with the illogical conclusion that Trump is therefore to blame for the chaotic and disorganized withdrawal from Afghanistan, which happened under the Biden administration’s watch. This conclusion is illogical because no Trump officials oversaw the withdrawal, Trump himself was not “calling the shots,” and the Pentagon was wholly acting under the supervision of Biden and his appointees. Any errors in the execution of the withdrawal from Afghanistan are to be attributed to Joe Biden and to our military leaders. Mr. Oberg makes the fallacious claim that Afghanis falling from flying airplanes is due to the ignorance and incompetence of President Trump, when Trump merely made the decision to end a 20 year war in Afghanistan. Good decision, but terrible execution on the withdrawal.
This propensity for the current administration to blame their woes on the previous administration is indicative of a wish to escape blame, is grasping at straws, is making Trump a convenient excuse for a precipitous fall in approval numbers and is the go-to line for many of Biden’s supporters, one of whom has told me that Trump set an elaborate political trap in Afghanistan for Joe Biden. I do not share that view.
Yes, you will certainly find some conclusions and claims from the right side of the aisle that are a stretch... no doubt. But the idea that 320 years after the Prussians adopted the motto "Gott mit uns" that Christianity led to the rise of Nazism and WWII elevates illogical conclusions and fallacious claims to a wholly different level.
Ray, a "stretch"? You think? Trump, who has lead this nation to be its most divisive in decades, if not centuries, has the Republicans riled to the level of destroying our democracy by undermining our voting systems, attacking the Capitol, making "fake news" a mantra, and stoking outright racism. The right has taken our country on a course to a brink of civil war which takes them to a wholly different level of depravity and disgust.
Ray: Don’t credit Tafhdyd with that one! I was the one who brought up the indisputable fact that German Christians helped Hitler in his preparations for WWII. It has been established conclusively, that their support helped Hitler, and if they had resisted instead, it might have prevented Hitler’s rise to power, and eventually prevented WWII. I know you don’t like the idea that Christians could be that
careless, inconsiderate and so full of hate against the Jews, but that’s not something you can sit here and deny, just because you are uninformed and unwilling to accept the uncomfortable truth, which historians agree on. And don’t come back and ask for more evidence than I have already given you. You are on your own, and instead of asking me for even more evidence, come back with something credible that disputes what I have claimed.
Sorry, but the DNC was already well on its way to dividing America into camps long before Donald Trump declared his candidacy. We have all heard the screed that Donald Trump is destroying our democracy, yet the three branches of government continue to function in the same way they did before January 20, 2017. Voting rights have been suppressed… seriously? That’s difficult to reconcile when this last election cycle saw significant increases in voting totals in minority communities. Insurrection? The FBI has reported that the January 6 riots were not organized by Trump supporters… something the DJ readers on the left side of the aisle seem to overlook. Perhaps “fake news” is not the best way to describe the media that carried a story about collusion for four years with no proof of collusion. What would you call a media that keeps repeating news cycles with unnamed sources but squelches stories that may hurt the DNC’s top candidate? “Stoking racism?” RUKM? Coming from members of the party that endorsed slavery back in the day and today which perpetuates high unemployment, high crime and gun violence, rampant drug use, and failing schools in Black communities? I have to ask again… RUKM? Let’s see… who pushed legislation to incarcerate African-Americans… Donald Trump or Joe Biden? Brink of civil war? Well, that’s a nice story for Dem supporters to tell their children at bedtime, but we’re not even close. However, if the country was being nudged in that direction, that nudge would be coming from… wait for it… the DNC.
Whoa, cowboy… read the post. I was not atturbuting your bely buckle theory to Tafhdyd. Tafhdyd and I were discussing illogical conclusions and fallacious claims, and I mentioned your utterly unsupported claim that Christainaity is the reason the Nazis came to power in Germany and then started WWII. Of course… German nationalism, the political punishments heaped on Germany as a result of the Treaty of Versailles, the Germans desire for revenge, and a collapsed economy had nothing to do with Hitler assuming power.
I noticed that you have sidestepped the origin of the “Gott mit uns” motto being used to inspire troops in battle. That honor goes to Sweden… almost 100 years before it became popular in Prussia. N’est-ce pas? Hmmm… King Adolph in Sweden and Adolph Hitler in Germany… both were named Adolph. Do you think there was some collusion? Regardless, if we apply the Jorgian system of logic… we can make a claim that Sweden is responsible for the Nazis’ rise to power and the 15-20 million deaths in Europe during WWII. The logic is impeccable.
Read the thread. My posts did not credit Tafhdyd with the illogical and fallacious claim made by you about the Nazis' rise to power. I wrote to you, "Tafhdyd and I were discussing illogical conclusions and fallacious claims, and I mentioned your utterly unsupported claim that Christianity is the reason the Nazis came to power in Germany and then started WWII." There was more to that post... like the facts and history that dash your bogus claim to pieces...
Ray: I have provided plenty of evidence for German Christian support of Hitler leading up to WWII, comparable to the blind Evangelical support for Trump, whether you get it, or like it, or not. But you have failed to come up with a single rebuttal from someone reputable! All you have presented, is the usual Republican nonsense that has nothing to do with what we’re trying to discuss. Going back hundreds of years in SWEDISH history to find another Adolph? What nonsense! And YOU expect to be taken seriously, - by anyone, except your fellow Trumpists? Get real, Ray
What you are failing to grasp is that there is no support for your position, so you have concluded that saying something false over and over again will make it true. You know,,, like Adam Schiff's claims about evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign in 2016 and Russia. With respect to your bogus claim, you have also excluded the real facts and history which made a defeated people ready to follow a false leader to destruction... and there can be no dispute about the wrongfulness of that decision. However, those real facts and history are rooted in political and economic calamities not religion. Sorry.
It's almost as if your position on this matter is something that might come out of "The Oberlin Review."
Ray: How trumpishly Republican! If you can’t handle the facts, logic and common sense, and have no real counter argument, just try your best to mess it all up by introducing whatever you can dig up. Works wonders for Trump followers, but not for thinking, educated people. But, of course, you know the facts about German Christian support of Hitler far better than any one of all those who have written books and articles about it, as well as German Christians I have spoken with.
Mr. Constantino – the majority of people share your view. But from the rest, what do you expect from people who have no treasonous Biden accomplishment to point to? Note that these rabid left-wingers have been trying to push Biden’s debacle as an accomplishment. Who knew so many people preferred America Last.
Terrence, we know you prefer America last as you continually describe Trump as "great" without ever citing any evidence of a single worthwhile accomplishment. Then you describe Biden as treasonous, again without evidence, while blissfully ignore the Trump guy who incited an insurrection. But, what can we expect from someone who never met a fact he liked.
Rrel, it’s telling that between you and your buddies, Taffy and Jorg, you’re unable to cite a single treasonous Biden accomplishment. And better yet, none of you can refute Mr. Constantino’s brilliant response. As for your so-called insurrection, you may want to know that if half a million patriots actually took part, then it would be considered an insurrection. But, what can we expect from someone who thinks fake news and lies are fact. BTW, where’s your outrage that a US Capitol cop murdered an unarmed woman during your so-called insurrection?
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(18) comments
Good morning, James
Illogical conclusions and fallacious claims appear to be positions of more than just one left leaning DJ reader...
Ray,
You have been at this long enough to know that the same holds true for the right side of the aisle, especially those that support Trump.
Tafhdyd! Ol' buddy, ol' pal, ol' friend...
Yes, you will certainly find some conclusions and claims from the right side of the aisle that are a stretch... no doubt. But the idea that 320 years after the Prussians adopted the motto "Gott mit uns" that Christianity led to the rise of Nazism and WWII elevates illogical conclusions and fallacious claims to a wholly different level.
Ray, a "stretch"? You think? Trump, who has lead this nation to be its most divisive in decades, if not centuries, has the Republicans riled to the level of destroying our democracy by undermining our voting systems, attacking the Capitol, making "fake news" a mantra, and stoking outright racism. The right has taken our country on a course to a brink of civil war which takes them to a wholly different level of depravity and disgust.
Ray: Don’t credit Tafhdyd with that one! I was the one who brought up the indisputable fact that German Christians helped Hitler in his preparations for WWII. It has been established conclusively, that their support helped Hitler, and if they had resisted instead, it might have prevented Hitler’s rise to power, and eventually prevented WWII. I know you don’t like the idea that Christians could be that
careless, inconsiderate and so full of hate against the Jews, but that’s not something you can sit here and deny, just because you are uninformed and unwilling to accept the uncomfortable truth, which historians agree on. And don’t come back and ask for more evidence than I have already given you. You are on your own, and instead of asking me for even more evidence, come back with something credible that disputes what I have claimed.
Rel and Jorg
Sorry, but the DNC was already well on its way to dividing America into camps long before Donald Trump declared his candidacy. We have all heard the screed that Donald Trump is destroying our democracy, yet the three branches of government continue to function in the same way they did before January 20, 2017. Voting rights have been suppressed… seriously? That’s difficult to reconcile when this last election cycle saw significant increases in voting totals in minority communities. Insurrection? The FBI has reported that the January 6 riots were not organized by Trump supporters… something the DJ readers on the left side of the aisle seem to overlook. Perhaps “fake news” is not the best way to describe the media that carried a story about collusion for four years with no proof of collusion. What would you call a media that keeps repeating news cycles with unnamed sources but squelches stories that may hurt the DNC’s top candidate? “Stoking racism?” RUKM? Coming from members of the party that endorsed slavery back in the day and today which perpetuates high unemployment, high crime and gun violence, rampant drug use, and failing schools in Black communities? I have to ask again… RUKM? Let’s see… who pushed legislation to incarcerate African-Americans… Donald Trump or Joe Biden? Brink of civil war? Well, that’s a nice story for Dem supporters to tell their children at bedtime, but we’re not even close. However, if the country was being nudged in that direction, that nudge would be coming from… wait for it… the DNC.
Rel and Jorg again…
Whoa, cowboy… read the post. I was not atturbuting your bely buckle theory to Tafhdyd. Tafhdyd and I were discussing illogical conclusions and fallacious claims, and I mentioned your utterly unsupported claim that Christainaity is the reason the Nazis came to power in Germany and then started WWII. Of course… German nationalism, the political punishments heaped on Germany as a result of the Treaty of Versailles, the Germans desire for revenge, and a collapsed economy had nothing to do with Hitler assuming power.
I noticed that you have sidestepped the origin of the “Gott mit uns” motto being used to inspire troops in battle. That honor goes to Sweden… almost 100 years before it became popular in Prussia. N’est-ce pas? Hmmm… King Adolph in Sweden and Adolph Hitler in Germany… both were named Adolph. Do you think there was some collusion? Regardless, if we apply the Jorgian system of logic… we can make a claim that Sweden is responsible for the Nazis’ rise to power and the 15-20 million deaths in Europe during WWII. The logic is impeccable.
Tafhdyd: He didn't get my point of "crediting" you! Ha!
Jorg... Jorg... Jorg
Read the thread. My posts did not credit Tafhdyd with the illogical and fallacious claim made by you about the Nazis' rise to power. I wrote to you, "Tafhdyd and I were discussing illogical conclusions and fallacious claims, and I mentioned your utterly unsupported claim that Christianity is the reason the Nazis came to power in Germany and then started WWII." There was more to that post... like the facts and history that dash your bogus claim to pieces...
Ray: I have provided plenty of evidence for German Christian support of Hitler leading up to WWII, comparable to the blind Evangelical support for Trump, whether you get it, or like it, or not. But you have failed to come up with a single rebuttal from someone reputable! All you have presented, is the usual Republican nonsense that has nothing to do with what we’re trying to discuss. Going back hundreds of years in SWEDISH history to find another Adolph? What nonsense! And YOU expect to be taken seriously, - by anyone, except your fellow Trumpists? Get real, Ray
Jorg
What you are failing to grasp is that there is no support for your position, so you have concluded that saying something false over and over again will make it true. You know,,, like Adam Schiff's claims about evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign in 2016 and Russia. With respect to your bogus claim, you have also excluded the real facts and history which made a defeated people ready to follow a false leader to destruction... and there can be no dispute about the wrongfulness of that decision. However, those real facts and history are rooted in political and economic calamities not religion. Sorry.
It's almost as if your position on this matter is something that might come out of "The Oberlin Review."
Take care of yourself...
Ray: How trumpishly Republican! If you can’t handle the facts, logic and common sense, and have no real counter argument, just try your best to mess it all up by introducing whatever you can dig up. Works wonders for Trump followers, but not for thinking, educated people. But, of course, you know the facts about German Christian support of Hitler far better than any one of all those who have written books and articles about it, as well as German Christians I have spoken with.
Jorg
I would suggest that you get out more often. Well... bye.
Ray: Meaning ...WHAT? Didn't understand what I wrote?
Mr. Constantino – the majority of people share your view. But from the rest, what do you expect from people who have no treasonous Biden accomplishment to point to? Note that these rabid left-wingers have been trying to push Biden’s debacle as an accomplishment. Who knew so many people preferred America Last.
Terrence, we know you prefer America last as you continually describe Trump as "great" without ever citing any evidence of a single worthwhile accomplishment. Then you describe Biden as treasonous, again without evidence, while blissfully ignore the Trump guy who incited an insurrection. But, what can we expect from someone who never met a fact he liked.
Rrel, it’s telling that between you and your buddies, Taffy and Jorg, you’re unable to cite a single treasonous Biden accomplishment. And better yet, none of you can refute Mr. Constantino’s brilliant response. As for your so-called insurrection, you may want to know that if half a million patriots actually took part, then it would be considered an insurrection. But, what can we expect from someone who thinks fake news and lies are fact. BTW, where’s your outrage that a US Capitol cop murdered an unarmed woman during your so-called insurrection?
A couple more "great" decisions like Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal will really help Republicans.
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