Editor,

This letter is in response to William Affonso’s letter ‘Guts yes, brains no,’ in the Oct. 11 issue of the Daily Journal. Mr. Affonso conveniently leaves out the most important fact about America’s withdrawal from Afghanistan, and that is, the agreement to end the war in Afghanistan and withdraw U.S. and allied troops, was approved and signed by Trump, while he was in office. Trump’s own incompetence and ignorance is the reason why the withdrawal was so chaotic and disorganized. It is also the reason why America left millions of dollars worth of military equipment in Afghanistan. Biden had nothing to do with the signing of such a poor agreement with the Taliban, as Biden wasn’t even elected President yet! 

So, all the negative things that Mr. Affonso is blaming Biden should be blamed on Trump’s incompetence and ignorance, not Biden. Mr. Affonso, please get your facts and history of events straight. President Biden was left “holding the bag” when he was elected president and has had to clean up all of Trump’s messes and screw-ups.

Michael Oberg

San Mateo

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(69) comments

DavidKristofferson

The quality of the discussion on this letter is why I rarely post anything here. Too many insults and repetitions of the same extremely predictable points of view. Several of you are very well-informed, but I still am bewildered about why you all want to make the same points day after day…

I will add one reply to Ray’s bringing up the situation at the border though. In order to win the election (and perhaps TY will disagree that Biden won the election…), Biden had to court the African-American and Hispanic vote. This obviously led him to ease up on immigration policy which led to chaos at the border. Trump appealed to immigration foes, so he had no hesitancy taking a harsh line on immigration policy.

On the other hand, Trump has coal miners and Texas oil producers on his side. In order to keep their votes, he obviously panders to them and consequently causes harm to the environment by promoting coal mining and other fossil fuel production. I personally rank this as a *much* greater negative than Biden’s politicized immigration policy.

Discussing climate change in this environment will be fruitless, but for me personally, every time I look at my two little grandsons I worry about the environmental mess that we are leaving them.

Our basic problem is that we have very few politicians who are capable of *leading* (and Trump is not a “strong leader” despite his self-proclamations). This country has degenerated into so many pleading special interest groups that there are few people looking at the “big picture” and trying to determine what is best for the country as a whole, because, given all of the hard choices that have to be made, they think that it won’t get them elected.

My only hope is that people will eventually get so disgusted with this childish partisan bickering that they might surprise everyone and vote for someone with a clear vision for our country.

Remember Kennedy’s admonition, “And so my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.” Whatever happened to this sentiment?

Ray Fowler

David

You are intelligent and well read. So, it surprises me that you have reduced the border issue to essentially MSM talking points.

I have presented information about the utter chaos at the border... assaults on emigrants, increased drug smuggling, risks to American citizens, allowing an untold number of persons into the US without vetting them, treating them for health issues including COVID then giving up on how to track them for later processing. I have presented this information more than once... more twice... response from the left side of the aisle? Crickets.

This is a Biden administration crisis... where is the border czar? Is it any surprise that a majority of Ameticans disapprove of the Biden border policy? Is it any surprise that Biden's approval ratings are sinking?

BTW... the DNC has assumed the African-American and Hispanic voting blocs were firmly entrenched in the Dem column. That has started to change... I wonder why?

I read, I debate, I challenge my own positions. I have been in the arena. In my view, there are waaay too many of those timid souls who sit on the edge of the arena posting endless ackamarackus in these pages.

DavidKristofferson

MSM talking points??? Ray, I agree with what you say above. All I mentioned earlier is that Biden isn’t cracking down harshly at the border because he doesn’t want to alienate Hispanic voters. That doesn’t mean I approve of what is going on at the border. Biden wants instead to focus on items like his infrastructure package but even there Dems are running into brick walls lately.

Despite all of those negatives, I would rather have Biden running the country than Trump who is power hungry, dangerous, and completely unethical, but I would have been happier if a younger (but > 50) *moderate* politician had been elected president. We have had *seriously* flawed choices in both of the last two presidential elections. I can’t even get too enthusiastic about many of the candidates over the last several decades either. Our political system rewards flash over substance unfortunately, and we often elect inexperienced leaders simply because they can give a good speech.

Since the mid twentieth century, I would give good marks to FDR and Truman, OK but qualified opinions on Eisenhower and Johnson and so-so to outright horrible on the rest. I liked Obama’s personality (it was refreshing to have someone who at least sounded intelligent as president after his predecessor), but once again I was very leary of a one term senator leaping immediately into the highest office in the land. Similar comments could be made about Carter. Clinton was smart but another small state governor with serious flaws. Bush 1 had a detailed resume and was supposedly an ethical guy, but there were issues with him that bothered me too. I’m not going to even get started on Nixon or Reagan… except for the latter to note Dr. Emmett Brown’s comment in “Back to the Future.” 😉

Ray Fowler

I agree... someone more moderate in the WH in this century would have been better for the left, the right, and most importantly... the country. You present an interesting snapshot of US presidents going back to the mid twentieth century, but even FDR can be looked at with a jaundiced eye...

We can only hope that Americans of all stripes will start to do better than we have in the past in choosing someone to lead. A necessary first step in that direction could be ignoring the MSM bias. Jon Stewart just said the media made a mistake by turning Trump into a supervillain and he has been vilified by the MSM for saying so. At the same time, the MSM has been ignoring stories that don't fit the left's narrative (like Katie Couric's "editing" comments made by RBG).

This is all great discussion we could have over an adult beverage, but what do we really do about the here and now? I'm not a Biden fan, but I'm not one of those whack-a-doodles who bellow, "He's not MY president!" Everyone has to realize that when the president is doing well... we are all probably doing well. Right now, our president is not doing well.

Listen to the people, Joe... not the caterwauling going on around the Beltway.

Terence Y

Mr. Kristofferson, some words to take to heart sprinkled in your comment, but when you hope that people get disgusted with childish partisan bickering and then include your own partisan bickering in an attempt to denigrate our great President Trump, it takes away from your message. Seems to me a clear vision was evident with Trump’s America First policy, as opposed to what Biden is doing - pursuing America Last policies (to wit, our economy, inflation, rising gas prices, border lawlessness, appeasement of the Taliban, etc.). BTW, if you can convince letter writers and commenters to stop living in the past and documenting what they can do for our country, more power to you. Until then, I plan on calling out fake news and lies, as needed until some people get on board with your hope.

Tafhdyd

Terence,

Being the "King of fake news" on the DJ comments section, you are well qualified to know about fake news. Just remember when you point your finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you. Find your mirror yet? BTW, how are you doing with your bamboo fibers?

Terence Y

I was wondering when my friend, Taffy, would show up with his usual nonsense mirror shtick. Hey Taffy, unfortunately for you, you and your rabid left-wingers don’t know how to point. Case in point, your pal, Jorg. BTW, how IS your panda diet study doing?

DavidKristofferson

Terrence - my issues about Trump have nothing to do with partisanship - they boil down to basic issues of morality. He is not fit to be president of our country. This would be true regardless of his party affiliation.

Tommy Tee

100%, David. 100%.

Terence Y

Okay, Mr. Kristofferrson, I’ll adopt your approach. My issues with treasonous Biden have nothing to do with partisanship. It boils down to the dementia-ridden guy providing aid and comfort to the enemy, in addition to pursuing America Last policies. That would be true regardless of his party affiliation. Actually, I’ll extend your approach to everyone since I’m all for equal opportunity. So I guess we’re back where we started from – with the same extremely predictable points of view, but now re-defined to be non-partisan. One step forward and two steps back.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Tafhdyd,

I can't argue with your logic; with regard to political "centrists and liberals". As you proved during the 2020 election, you have a better feel for them than do I. I am not convinced there are enough racists and bigots in our country to swing elections. I was thinking of the millions of hard working "salt of the earth" folks politicians ignore and insult. I believe Trump used the media to reach them. Also, I wonder how many people voted against Hillary. As opposed to voting for Trump.

Tafhdyd

Wilfred,

I think the bigots and racists may not swing an election under most circumstances but I think they make up about 20 million of his base. Take them out and he has nothing. You are right about Hillary. Many voted for Trump and others because they were not voting for her, 1, because she was a Clinton, 2, because she was a women.

edkahl

Trump's agreement with the Taliban was conditioned on certain conditions being met. If Tump had still been in office he would have listened to his military and intelligence advisors on the best way to withdraw. Biden rushed the withdrawal for political purposes even though there hadn't been any casualties in 18 months under Trump's agreement.

Tommy Tee

Ed--what planet are you on? Trump never listened to his advisers. Remember when he believed Putin over his own intelligence?

Ray Fowler

Tommy

Gen. Milley advised the Donald to not initiate a withdrawal near the end of Trump's term. Trump listened. Planet? Earth.

Tafhdyd

Mr. Kahl,

Let me refresh your memory. Defense Secretary Mattis resigned over Trumps pullout of troops in Syria against the advice of his military.

Tommy Tee

Spot on, Mike.

Terence Y

Sorry, Mr. Oberg, try as you might, no amount of spin can take away the fact that treasonous Biden owns the Afghanistan debacle.

Jorg

Terence: Y don’t you look up words you don’t understand, before you so frivolously toss them around, like for example the word “treasonous”? The simplest for someone like you, would be to Google the word, to find out what it means, as well as proper usage.

Terence Y

Jorg, that’s a pretty funny comment coming from you, seeing as how you don’t know the difference between “constructive” and “preventive” or between “seize” and “cease” and better yet, not knowing the definition of “compact obstruction.” And that’s within the past week and a half. Since you’re having issues with those terms, I forgive you for not knowing the definition of “treasonous.” Perhaps you should Google, well, all the words above you’re confused about, as well as their proper usage.

Jorg

What else is new, Mike? There seems to be a pattern, where a Democratic administration has to clean up the mess left by a Republican so-called administration, like President Obama after Bush Jr. and President Biden after Trump. Still, Republicans want another Republican to mess it up again. It should be obvious by anyone who cares about the country, that Republicans have nothing to offer, but compact obstruction, in an effort to make it less obvious that Democrats outshine a party they desperately hang on to and which cannot win without voter suppression and uninformed and mal-informed voters who have no idea what they are doing. And they still hang submissively on to Trump, who has demonstrated how incompetent and socially unacceptable he is, in every possible respect. And when someone brings that up on this site, all his blind supporters have to offer, are silly ad hominem comments and shallow counter arguments. But, there are signs that some more responsible and honest, more caring and better informed Republicans are distancing themselves from Trump and his supporters. About time they see the light, before another minority selected WH occupant runs us clear off the cliff, and finish the job Trump set out to do, whether he understood it, or not.

Terence Y

Blah, blah, blah, another living in the past comment from Jorg attempting to blame our great President Trump. Yet Jorg has no bumbling Biden accomplishment to hang his hat on, still. Speaking of accomplishments, I hear Norway has removed all face mask requirements. In addition, no restrictions, no COVID passports, no social distancing, everything’s open, they’ve stopped administering Moderna to the youngsters – life appears back to normal. Now maybe uneducated Democrats and their sycophants will see the light. Doubtful, but one can hope. BTW, Jorg-0, Mr. Oberg-1 (number of exclamation points)

Jorg

So what, TY? Norway understood the Covid-19 problem early, took it seriously, and took constructive action, which Norwegians took seriously and supported. Sharp contrast to your “great P” Trump and his mal-informed supporters, don’t you think? No? Well, I should have known.

Terence Y

Actually, Jorg, it's “preventive” action, not “constructive”? Our (yes, our) great President Trump is responsible for constructive action, with his Warp Speed push for the COVID jabs. BTW, why are you scurrying again from Ray? I don’t believe it’s a matter of time to educate us – it’s because you can’t and you’re trying to find a way out of the hole you’ve dug. Next time, just say “uncle” instead of digging deeper.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Terence my friend,

Your turn to enjoy the knuckleheads today. Let's see how many self identify. LOL

Terence Y

Wilfred, lucky me! Fortunately, it's easy to refute their Democrat playbook lies and knee-jerk reactions. It's as if lying has become part of their second nature while their critical thinking and research have gone the way of the coelacanth. I'd be worried if they actually had a bungling Biden accomplishment they could point to, but fortunately for us, there are none.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

You have to acknowledge the zeal with which they follow their leaders. Purely on faith. Take Jorg for example. Constantly lavishing Obama with unmerited praise. Until the powers that be presented him to the nation, a do nothing, smart sounding community organizer. What did he accomplish in office? Nothing except race bait, weaken the dollar and lie about health insurance. Premiums went up, policies got cancelled and the health problems of our nation remain. Remember Representative Joe Lewis' prediction? I suppose we can't blame them for clinging to their diplomas and news outlets. ROTFLMA.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-wilson-apologizes-for_n_281541

Jorg

Wilfred: Have you forgotten that President Obama came from a rather modest background compared to Trump, yet he graduated Magna C*m Laude from law school, taught law, became a US Senator, then a 2-term US President, elected by a comfortable majority both times, and was widely respected around the world. And Trump? Well, we know that story now, so I won’t repeat it, but he was such a lousy student that he had to threaten lawsuits if anyone dared to expose his grades, while this liar claimed to be first in his class. If so, he should have been accepted at USC film school, which rejected him, despite being accompanied by his rich dad.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Jorg,

Do some research on the back story of Obama. It has nothing to do with his accomplishments. He was selected. Hint: He returned to Chicago with aspirations of becoming Mayor.

Jorg

Wilfred: What is that nonsense? What’s wrong with what I wrote? Have you not read any books by or about him? Why are you so unwilling to accept President Obama’s accomplishments? Because he is black, better educated than you, and far more accomplished?

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Jorg,

According to those in the know, I cannot be racist because I am not in power. Being educated is not the same as being intelligent (you are living proof) and you have no knowledge of what I have accomplished.

If you really believe what you write, I am not smart enough to change your mind. Adios pendejo.

Terence Y

100%, Wilfred. 100%

Ray Fowler

Jorg... rinse and repeat commentary... again.

I believe your use of the term "ad hominem" in your post may be semantically incorrect.

Still waiting for you to validate your claims that Christianity was responsible for the Nazis rise to power and the start of WWII... and your claim that religion was the cause of most, if not all, the wars in world history.

Jorg

Ray: Whether or not you are willing or ready to admit it, it has been established that Christian support for Hitler, and their hate of the Jews, helped Hitler in his war preparations, and which may very well have prevented WWII if they had turned against him. You can research that yourself, there’s plenty of stuff on it. I don’t have the time to educate you. The most recent example of religion being behind wars, is Bush’s claim that he heard God inside his head, telling him to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. In a more educated and progressive country, such nonsense would have been characterized as bordering on insanity.

Ray Fowler

Jorg... perhaps you overlooked information posted about your sources... an expert on dinosaurs, a fringe cleric who wrote about the game dungeons and dragons, and a credible theologian with no background in history. These are not credible, reliable, and accurate sources. I have asked for one... just one... scholar or historian who agrees with your false claim that Christianity caused the Nazi rise to power and WWII. You are neglecting the ill effects of the Treaty of Versailles, a wrecked economy, the desire for revenge, and the allure of nationalistic themes that appealed to a defeated people. You can have some or all of those factors influencing Germans in the 1930s independent of those Germans' church going habits.

Then, there is the even more outlandish claim that religion caused most if not all the wars in the world. Did you see the numbers? Old math still works and it obliterates your false claim. Any response other than your equally false claim that there is support for your point of view somewhere on the internet?

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Evasive. Given your age, as evidenced by your memories of walking and talking when Nazi's knocked on your door, you have nothing but time. Provide proof for your opinions. That will show Mr. Fowler the respect he provides you. "F" for the knucklehead.

Jorg

Ray: Sorry, I can’t be responsible for your education on the subject, nor do I have the time. There are numerous books on the subject, and if you really are interested, start reading. Closer to home, what about the God that roamed around inside Bush’s head, triggering the latest couple of wars?

Jorg

Ray: Sorry, but Christian, Catholic as well as Protestant, support for Hitler is so well established and widely accepted, that not even you can explain it away, - no matter how much you distaste truth that obviously is uncomfortable for the religious crowd. In addition to an abundance of books on the subject, here are but a small sample of articles you are welcome to try to explain away:

http://www.greenvillegazette.com/p/154520/

https://visionbaptist.com/2008/10/11/why-german-christians-elected-and-supported-hitler/

https://www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-and-human-behavior/chapter-5/protestant-churches-and-nazi-state

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/04/the-great-scandal-christianitys-role-in-the-rise-of-the-nazis/

https://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/22/religion-as-a-cause-of-war/

All German soldiers had the inscription “Got mit uns” on their belt buckles during WWII. Why?

In “Mein Kampf”, Hitler states that he is doing God’s work by exterminating the Jews. Haven’t read it?

And, don’t forget that American Evangelicals as a flock supported Trump, regardless of his a-social, anti-Christian behavior and his habitual lying, - not to mention his ungentlemanlike conduct towards women. Why?

Besides, you haven’t responded to Bush’s reasons for attacking Afghanistan and Iraq, namely that God allegedly spoke to him inside his head and told him so. Nothing to do with religion?

Ray Fowler

Jorg...

How can I state this any plainer... provide one... just one... truly credible, reliable and accurate scholar or historian who supports your position that Christianity is the reason the Nazis rose to power and started WWII. Just one. Your first attempt offered an expert on dinosaurs, a fringe theologian who writes about the game dungeon and dragons, and what appears to be a theologian with books on religion to his credit, however, that writer does not have training in researching history. You're basically saying, I found some stuff on the internet so it must be true. You are suggesting that persons writing in an echo chamber... without any rigorous review of their writing... are ample enough reason to turn out nearly a century of scholarship on the conditions in Germany that led to the rise of Nazism. Wow.

I researched your first set of alleged sources, and found them to be bogus. So, I asked again for one source. Where is it? I will look at the second batch after you provide one name... just one... for a true scholar or historian on this subject. Still waiting.

Then there is the matter of your complete scurrying away from your claim that religion was the cause for most if not all of the world's wars throughout history. I researched your bogus claim and provided numbers that make your claim look as foolish as it sounds. Your rebuttal? Crickets, again. So, Jorg... puh-leeze enlighten us. Provide something of substance to support your claim because thus far, we have only heard more of your anti-religious haranguing without any substance to support your skewed and completely unverifiable claim.

At some point during the past couple of days, you have tossed some chaff into the air to take attention off your bogus claims about the rise of the Nazis and warfare across the centuries. GW Bush acknowledges that his faith helped form his decision to engage terrorists in the Middle East and Central Asia. I did not respond because I was waiting... I still am waiting... for your response to a couple of direct questions. But here are some thoughts... a person of faith is informed by their belief system when making decisions... is that not also true of humanists and atheists? Here's a scenario for you... if President X... a person who claims to be an avowed atheist... made an unpopular, costly or unwise decision that was informed by their personal values... would you question his or her rejection of God? Not likely. But you're happy to chastise someone who is Christian and errs when that person does not share your pagan orientation. Double wow.

Did you hear Nancy P challenge reporters who questioned her religiosity? Have you heard Joe B loudly and proudly proclaim his belief in God? How did Barack O finish every speech? Simple... "God bless the United States." Looks like your Dem leadership disagrees with your anti-Christian diatribes. What do you make of that?

The biggest problem for leftists that agree with you re: GW Bush is that they will not accept the fact that he truly believes in God. That's kinda sad that they do not allow for someone to express their personal convictions just because those convictions do not line up with progressive ideology. Here's the difference... you and I will probably never meet GW Bush, but if we did, he would not hesitate for a second to pray for you or me... especially if one of us were facing a great personal challenge. Would you offer the same type of support for someone who holds a point of view that differs from your own? You know... those people you have labeled uneducated, un-American, and who you generally criticize for not having any principles just because they did not support a candidate you like.

There's still time, Jorg. ..

Jorg

Ray: OK, a last attempt to enlighten you:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/countering-radical-right/political-religions-and-fascism/

https://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/hitler-and-the-christian-religion-the-theocratic-state/

Again, what about the German soldiers’ religious belt buckle imprints, and the quote I mentioned from Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”?

If this doesn’t help you understand my point of Christianity supporting Hitler, I give up.

Ray Fowler

Jorg... not so fast. You cannot point to something you found on the internet and magically, mystically say, "Here's proof!" Tell us what you think the articles say, and we'll start there...

Ray Fowler

Jorg

Here are some highlights from information provided by you…

The Nazis created new symbols and rituals to inspire followers with their political religion. Such a political religion strives to give its followers a sense of serving something higher… a leader or the state… but a political religion is separate and independent from a religion that asks its followers to serve God. The Nazis’ political religion symbols were introduced to unite Germans in uncompromising loyalty to the Fatherland. The Nazis manipulated faith… faith did not lend itself to advancing the Nazi party. Nazi followers looked to the party for answers they felt they could not find in their traditional religious practices. Totalitarian states with political religions are distinct from non-totalitarian states where traditional religions are accepted. The Nazis’ political religion demanded loyalty and insisted on a monopoly of thought... a belief system that based its values on national identity and race… not God. The Nazis’ pseudo-religion may be seen as an extreme reformulation of established religious practices, but the influence of those established religions did not allow the Nazis to embark on a campaign that led to 15-20 million deaths in Europe.

The article does not support your claims that Christianity led to the Nazi rise to power and WWII.

As an aside, if you spend any time studying prison tattoos, you’ll find lots of symbols including Celtic crosses on the bodies of white extremists. Using your logic, we would extend the ministry of St. Patrick across the centuries to white supremacists today just because ancient converts to Christianity in Ireland and dangerous felons both identify with a similar looking symbol.

Jorg

Ray: You mean like blind Evangelical support for Trump, another authoritarian, like Hitler?

Ray Fowler

Jorg

There you go again... Hitler is the same as Trump. That position is so immersed in scintillating insight. You still have not answered direct questions re: your bogus claims about religion... no surprise. There is a huge difference between will not respond and cannot respond...

Jorg

Ray: You certainly have a right to argue about who is “going again”, but more important, who is not an authoritarian according to you, Hitler or Trump? In all fairness, Hitler was able to gain support from the vast majority of his nation, partly because of religion, while Trump was never able to attract more than a minority, despite heavy support from the religious. Hitler also served in the military during WWI, while Trump used a fake excuse and had dishonest doctors lie for him to avoid the the service.

If you don’t believe the latter, read John Dean’s book: “Authoritarian Nightmare - Trump and his followers”. Highly recommended, and very revealing!

Ray Fowler

Jorg

As I prefer to focus on positions not personalities, I'll just wait for you to respond to my earlier questions. Throwing further evidence of your extreme partisanship into the mix is not as convincing as you might think... as pointed out by another DJ reader last week... it's just plain evasive and predictable.

Jorg

Ray: Of course, I know certain facts have put you in a difficult position, but can’t you at least respond to the references I made to the German soldiers’ belt buckles, Hitler’s reference to doing God’s work, and whether or not Hitler and Trump can be classified as authoritarian? That shouldn’t be so hard, or what?

Ray Fowler

Jorg...

We're back to belt buckles... really? The phrase "Gott mit uns" was used in Germany before there was an official Germany... over 320 years ago. It was used decades before Hitler was born... but of course it has now become the centerpiece of your claim that the Nazis rise to power was only made possible by Christianity. BTW... the phrase was also used in Germany after WWII during the Cold War.

Jorg... sit down, please... read the following very carefully: the Third Reich was not built upon belt buckles. In these modern times, the phrase "Unity and Justice and Freedom" has replaced "Gott mit uns."

History quiz...

Q. What other country used the phrase "Gott mit uns" during most of its wars?

A. Sweden

With respect to your links... Tell us what you think the articles say, and we'll start there...

Jorg

Ray: For very personal reasons, I feel obligated to clear Sweden for such a nasty accusation! The motto you claim was abandoned ages ago. Today, Sweden is secular and far too well educated to be hung up on something that superstitious!

Ray Fowler

Jorg... whoa, whoa, whoa! Loosen your Viking hat!

The question was... which country used "Gott mit uns" as a battle cry for most of its wars? The answer is Sweden. That is not a nasty accusation... you just don't like the answer. Back in the day, Sweden warred against Denmark, Finland, Poland, Russia, and German principalities. Did I miss somebody? That motto was used by Sweden's Gustav II Adolph nearly 100 years before the Prussians started using it.

Let me apply some Jorgian logic... Swedes, under Gustav II Adolph used "Gott mit uns" a long time before some Germans adopted the phrase. Germans continued to use it after Germany was unified nearly two decades before Adolph Hitler was born. Then, Hitler continued use of the phrase, most notably on belt buckles, more than 200 years after the use of "Gott mit uns" appeared in Prussia. And... Sweden's Gustav and Germany's Hitler share the name, Adolph. So, that means, in Jorgian logic, that Sweden inspired Nazis to to use a phrase invoking the Almighty so Nazis could ultimately start WWII.

On a serious note... Jorg... with respect to the articles... tell us what you think they say and we'll start there. However, if you choose to not do so, just let me know.

Tommy Tee

Yes, Jorg--not to mention Trump's massive debt we need to pay off.

Ray Fowler

Tommy... no response to my post re: school indoctrination? Still waiting...

Jorg

Thanks, Tommy! So easy to forget among all the trouble Trump left behind! How could any minority selected WH occupant have left a worse mess, short of starting WWIII, - which Gen. Milley just may have avoided! I think he understood what Trump was capable of, - in a frantic effort to shield himself from all that would be coming his way, without the protection he had enjoyed for 4 years.

Terence Y

Yes Tommy, the massive debt inherited from Obama.

Jorg

Terence T: My goodness, what nonsense! You have no idea what you are talking about! President Obama was able to reduce the deficit dramatically after Bush had driven up the debt, while Trump drove it way up again and left us with greater debt than ever. Are you really that ignorant, or are you just trying a fast one, so common from your side on this site? Do you have any understanding of basic socio-economics?

Terence Y

Jorg, you’re making a fool of yourself, again! Everyone (on this earth and your flat earth) knows Obama-nable is responsible for the fifth largest debt increase in history, to date, to the tune of between $8 and $9 trillion (depending upon your source). And, unfortunately for you, Obama-nable bested our great President Trump for that honor. Are you really that ignorant, or are you just trying to pull another fast one, so common from you and your fellow rabid left-wingies? Do you have any understanding of how to do research? Maybe more homework is in store. BTW, I guess you also don’t know the difference between the letter “T” and the letter “Y.” I do feel honored that you’ve given me two exclamation points – of course I’m jealous of Wilfred, since he’s rated quite a few more.

Jorg

Terence Y: President Obama was stuck with the burden he inherited from Bush, including very costly wars, yet he was able to decrease the deficit substantially. Do you know the difference between debt and deficit?

Ray Fowler

Jorg

The proof is now incontrovertible... you have nothing... zip... nada... zilch to support your bogus claims about the Nazis rise to power and their reasons for starting WWII... neither do you have anything to support your contention that religion was the root cause of most if not all wars in the world's history. So much for the vaunted educational system in Norway...

Terence Y

Jorg, you’re continuing to make a fool of yourself! I’m not sure how math on your flat earth works, but here on Earth, if you increase the debt over $8 trillion, your deficit obviously wasn’t decreased substantially. Actually, it wasn’t decreased at all. Do you know the correlation between debt and deficit? So much for the vaunted educational system in Norway… (hat tip to Ray).

Ray Fowler

Good morning, Michael

Another progressive "let's jump in the time machine" offering. Joe Biden is president not Donald Trump. I noticed your commentary skirted around the chaos created by Joe's withdrawal plan. The mistakes made by Joe have been presented in these pages over and over again, yet the left side of the aisle keeps coming back to the Donald.* So rather than rehash the chaos created by Joe in Kabul, one simple question... in your opinion, was Joe's plan a success?

* At the same time drawing attention away from another Joe-manufactured crisis... the situation at the border.

Tafhdyd

Ray,

Remember the horse we whipped to death and then dug him up so we could whip him again? I guess it is time to dig him up again. I know you don’t want to use the “time machine” to go back to Trump but we do not need a time machine to go back because he is still front and center today.

In our younger days the right and the left had disagreements and made the news with bravado statements blaming the other side for everything that was wrong and then worked out their differences to try and help the country. Today the left and right disagreements are outright hatred for either side with no compromise, only more obstruction. What is the root of the problem? Almost all of it is the hateful rhetoric and lies spewed by the orange idol and spread daily by his gullible fools following him.

Everyday right wing politicians are campaigning on his lies and trying to destroy America as we know it because of their fealty to the king. Republican legislatures are passing laws to restrict the rights of every citizen they feel is not in line with their beliefs and campaigning to get Trump and his band of criminals elected in 2024 so he can be the dictator he has always wanted to be.

The thoughtful citizens like you and I on the right, left and center that can see past their bunk must keep their disease from spreading, otherwise it will be a classic case of the camel’s nose under the tent.

Ray Fowler

Tafhdyd

You have no idea how glad I am to see you post something this morning...

Every administration, to some extent, will point to the previous administration and lay blame on the outgoing chief executive for some issue. However, today's liberals have elevated it to an art form. What's the difference today? A virtual lock on the media. It's an unending stream of propaganda, and the result has been to drive what you described as "thoughtful citizens like you and I on the right, left and center" into warring camps. That can only be accomplished with control of the media and the media's unholy spawn, social networking platforms (like Twitter).

You have heard me say more than once, more than twice, that I do not agree with some things said and done by the Donald. I'll stand by that. So, are liberals going to stand by Joe's fiascos in Afghanistan and the border? Joe's decisions on those two issues were purposeful, and when he made them, things changed... a lot... for the worse.

Tafhdyd

Ray,

You said that every administration blames the previous administration for something and that the liberals have elevated to to an art form. Absolutely right, when you deal with professional cons and crooks the likes of the previous administration you can't sit around with paint by numbers.

As I have also said more than once, more than twice, both sides are crooks of some degree and have skeletons in the closet (a tip of the hat to Halloween) and the Dems have done a lot that I don't care for either. What they have done is not perfect but IMHO they have a big lead over the Repubs when it comes to the good of the general population.

Yes, Joe's exit from Afghanistan was messy and apparently not well planned. History will decide many years after we are gone but the difference from the other administrations is that he did exit. Even though wires may have crossed and sparks flew, he pulled the plug on a war we should not have been in from the start.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Tafhdyd,

Mi amigo. I am glad to see you offering cogent assertions today. What is missing from your post, from my perch, is that Trump could not have acquired popularity had it not been for the insulting statements made by Obama. And Reid. And Pelosi. And McCain. And Cruz. And Romney. Let me know if I need to provide clarification.

Jorg

Wilfred: What “insulting” statements? None was necessary for Trump! He was a walking insult to mankind, - and the nation! As far as President Obama, he treated Trump with undeserved respect and did his best to help him into a position he was unprepared and uneducated for, - despite his silly racist birther-nonsense.

Also, check out your grammar! Clue: your "nots".

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Jorg,

I don't have time for knuckleheads today. Hehe

Jorg

Wilfred: Hey, that’s a really good one, perhaps your best one ever! How well said: not enough time for yourself! Very funny!

Tafhdyd

Wilfred,

I have mentioned before that Trump never wanted to be president, only publicity. IMO he won because of the carefree attitude that many people had that Hillary was going to win so they voted for Trump for the fun of it. The other half of the equation is that he played to the racists and bigots which turned out to be in greater number than most people thought.

I won't disagree with your list of players. I have my own problems with Obama, Reid and Pelosi. McCain I liked back in 2000, didn't like in 2008 and liked again when and because he got under Trump's skin. Cruz is waste of good air and Romney is wishy washy with only half a spine. I will add that half a spine still puts him in about the top 5% of Repubs when it comes to having a spine at all.

Ray Fowler

and Hillary...

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