The same old same old

Sep 18, 2021
Sep 18, 2021 Updated Apr 13, 2025
22

Editor,

Well, congratulations to all you “no” voters. I guess I don’t understand the approximately 80%/20% no to yes ratio of votes in San Mateo County. This is surprising because in my neighborhood’s social media postings, people overwhelmingly were tired of the increase in property crimes, the thought of having an eight-unit apartment house next door to you, schools locked down, power outages, constant water rationing, etc.

(22) comments

Ray Fowler Sep 18, 2021 7:47am

Hello, Victor

Yes, the recall results were disappointing. It was also disappointing to hear the governor's campaign focus on attacking the Republican Party instead of addressing the serious issues in California that inspired a coalition of voters... Republicans, Independents and Democrats... to bring the recall to a statewide vote.

Our county, as you pointed out, voted 80% to 20% to reject the recall. Yet, like you, I heard from neighbors, who historically vote for liberal candidates, express their disappointment with the governor's performance. At the same time, many of them said that while they didn't like what was going on in California, they were not ready to change horses in midstream. That means the recall results may not be quite the landslide described by some MSM pundits. Maybe.

If there is a silver lining, it may be that enough voters in 2022 of all political stripe will choose a governor who will not settle into the same old same old.

Rel Sep 18, 2021 10:47am

Victor and Ray, as one who is part of the majority who voted no on the recall, I disagree with your opinions. The results are not disappointing but expected. Does the Republican Party believe the near $300M was money well spent? Especially when an election is about a year away? As supposed fiscal conservatives, do you not think our taxpayer money would not have been better allocated to, I don't know, the homeless problem to which the right seems to profess so much care? The Republican Party seems hellbent on trying end arounds to subvert the majority rather than actually do the work of representing its voters and trying to govern well by having workable plans to present.

Ray, did you not truly listen to Newsom's victory speech? He professed to work harder on defeating Covid results, work on climate change, reform the recall process, and lower the homeless numbers. His focus was hardly on Republicans. The true silver lining is that voters of all stripes are likely to continue with Newsom in the next election because he is doing the work that matters to CA voters.

Ray Fowler Sep 18, 2021 2:08pm

C'mon, Rel...

You wrote that the recall outcome was expected... seriously? With a nearly 2-to-1 Democrat advantage why wouldn't it be expected? But you've missed the point... do you honestly believe that everyone who voted No on the recall is happy about what's going on in our state?

You ask if the Republican Party believes the cost of the recall was money well spent... skrrrrip! Rel... while the Republicans, Independents, and... wait for it... Democrats who signed the recall petition wanted Gavin recalled, who initiated the recall petition? It wasn't the Republican Party. Oh, of course once the petition was certified, Dems supporting Gavin claimed the recall was just an extension of the right wing extremism witnessed on January 6 in the Capitol... except the FBI reported that the mob riot was not an attack coordinated by Trump supporters, and while there were some right wing extremists present... there was no grand scheme.

Coming back to the recall costs, I'm not a Republican and I don't know what the RNC's position is on the recall costs, but neither the persons seeking a recall nor the person being recalled controls those costs. While we're on the subject of money being spent, we could pay for 200+ recalls with the money being wasted on the Dems' HSR project.

You've got to be kidding... laying the homelessness problem at the feet of Republicans... Gavin has been in Sacramento (as lieutenant governor and now governor) for over a decade with a Democratic Party majority in the state legislature. Has the homelessness issue improved or worsened over that period of time? Did you notice that San Francisco now spends more than $1 billion on homelessness? Who runs the show up there... Democrats or Republicans?

As DNC heavyweights started decrying the "Republican recall," California's Republican delegates met this summer to consider endorsing a candidate in the recall. They voted overwhelmingly (90%) to not support any of the declared Republicans appearing on the ballot. While plenty of Republicans would like to see Gavin ousted, the recall petition did not start with their party.

Yes, I listened to Gavin's speech. The question during the campaign was... where was Gavin's explanation and defense for rising crime, taxes, gas prices, homelessness, poverty, etc.? The COVID lock down had not been initiated when the petition was first presented. Back to Gavin's speech... he pledged to work on COVID but that issue was not driving the petition.

You wrote that Gavin's speech did not focus on Republicans... double skrrrrip! Did you listen to his speech? He made comments that were straight from the DNC playbook's talking points... pro-choice, January 6, social justice, and voter suppression. That is putting the focus on the opposition. BTW... those were not issues driving the recall.

I wonder what the 15 million Californians who live at or near the poverty line think about Gavin's promises to move California forward?

Some unfinished business... in the comments section following Joanne Englehardt's September 16 LTE re: Matt Grocott's column... I rebutted some remarks made by you earlier. Would you care to respond?

Terence Y Sep 18, 2021 5:41pm

Ray, to save you some time, I checked that thread to see if Rel responded, hoping for the best, but when I clicked the link, all I heard was the sound of scurrying. I get the feeling that if there’s no Democrat talking point for Rel to reference, he’ll disappear faster than you can type the letter “a.”

Rel Sep 18, 2021 6:56pm

Ray, you lost us when you said you are not a Republican. Given all your posts in the past, you sure are not an independent nor a Democrat.

You also said "who initiated the recall petition? It wasn't the Republican Party." C'mon Ray you can do better than then give us false information. See this New York Times link on the recall initiation: https://www.nytimes.com/article/california-recall-election-gavin-newsom.html

As to Newsom's speech, of course he spoke about issues such as pro-choice, January 6, social justice, and voter suppression. In case you missed them, they are focus issues of the electorate which Republicans try to inflict on the majority. As to what the Republicans are doing to enable to enable all to vote; work on the homeless problems everywhere (not just CA), lower the poverty levels: defeat COVID, allow women to make their own medical decisions: et al....as you are prone to say multiple skrrriips!!

Ray Fowler Sep 18, 2021 9:58pm

Rel...

Wow. You claim I have inserted false information into the discussion? Then a NYT article is cited? Oh, yeah... they're well known for their unbiased and honest journalism. Let's take a look at that NYT article which self identified as the "encyclopedia" of the 2021 recall. The word "Republican" does not appear in the article until the 15th paragraph. No where in the article does it say the Republican Party initiated the recall. However, it does describe Orrin Heatlie and his California Patriot Coalition as the group that started the recall petition. In fact, Heatlie's group had to start over as their first effort was rejected on technical grounds. Rel... this is coming from the article linked in your post.

No one can dispute the Republican Party benefited from Gavin's leadership as governor being questioned, but the Republican Party did not initiate the petition. Period.

Democrats tried to smear the recall effort by claiming that it was being promoted by the Proud Boys... a right wing extremist group. Heatlie denies the affiliation, and in the early going Heatlie was glad that Trump had not inserted himself into the mix as Heatlie thought it would be a distraction.

False information... hmmm... would that be something like disputing the claim that no American service members were killed in action in Afghanistan in the year and a half period before 13 Americans were killed by ISIS-K during Biden's botched withdrawal? A source cited by you was offered as proof that the year and a half claim was false... how could that happen? Well, because you claimed your source reported that 4 American service members were killed in action in Afghanistan in 2020. But the source noted that those 4 tragic deaths occurred at the beginning of the year and before the year and a half period when there where no KIAs. The information was clearly a misrepresentation of what really happened... pure and simple. Here's what's utterly amazing... the WH did not dispute the year and a half claim of no KIAs... but you did so in your post. Wow.

I noticed you did not bother to respond to the other points in my rebuttal... and you still have not responded to the comments following Joanne's LTE. However, that would not be the first or even second time you have disappeared in the middle of an online discussion.

My politics? I have stated more than once, more than twice that I was a card carrying, bag totin' Democrat for over 30 years. Now, I am a proud No Party Preference (NPP) voter. I voted for Barack... once. And after exchanging some personal correspondence with our Democratic Party state assemblyman a while back, I have since voted for him... more than twice. Not being a Republican... I could not believe the momentum Trump picked up through the 2016 campaign. He was a blustery personality who had never held political office. Should be a cakewalk for Democrats, right? Well, it would have been if they had not selected the most disliked Democrat in recent memory. Democrats gave away the presidency in 1876 and again in 2016. Here's what the DNC held up as the best its party had to offer... http://viewpure.com/Prls6Iz3B3E (1:40).

Rel... if you're not going to respond to my rebuttals of your comments, please extend me the courtesy of saying so.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Sep 19, 2021 7:01pm

Rel,

You have identified yourself to be my senior. As such, the Holy Bible teaches me to respect you. So I will give you and others some things to think about. This time, respectfully.

Since I was a sixties teenager I have questioned our Federal Government. Because I viscerally detest liars. And it seems to me that is what it does best. At every turn. What does every government need to spread it's lies. Mass media. So I presume they are untrustworthy as well. After it was proven to my satisfaction that the R.N.C. and D.N.C. are two sides of the same coin, I stopped being a Republican. With the exception of Reagan, G.W. Bush and Trump I have voted for anything except the offerings made by the D.N.C. and R.N.C. for President of the U.S.A. Reagan because by deed, he convinced me he loved this country as much as I. Despite great reservation, I allowed my mom to convince me G.W. Bush would be a good "conservative". May she rest in peace, I believe she was wrong. Trump got my vote because Republicans hate him more than you do.

Please don't make so many flawed assumptions. Ask more questions of those with whom you disagree. I offer you this advice because instinctively, I believe you to be a true patriot. Unlike some on these pages. As is always the case, the choice is yours.

As a final thought, paraphrasing President Obama, don't come to a gunfight with a knife. My tongue in cheek way of describing the beatings you take from Mr. Fowler.

Ray Fowler Sep 19, 2021 9:28pm

Wilfredo! We share the same viewpoint that the DNC and RNC are merely different sides of the same coin. I also agree with your appraisal of Messrs. Reagan, Bush, and Trump.

There is always an exception that proves the rule. So with respect to Barack's advice about not taking a knife to a gunfight... I would offer the following short video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ7968BbMnU ...the story about one of the greatest American soldiers who ever lived... he took a knife to a gunfight and it turned out bad for the bad guys.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Sep 20, 2021 1:24am

Mr. Fowler,

The story of Mr. Benevidez is inspiring. I will not sully his actions with my miserable prose. This link I will archive.

It does not surprise me that you are able to understand my opinions. One need only have an open mind and utilize critical thinking skills. It pleases me greatly to learn we share aforementioned viewpoints. I salute you for loving our country and putting the best interest of your fellow citizens ahead of self and petty partisanship. None of us are the knuckleheaded enemies some are lead by the nose to believe exist.

Tafhdyd Sep 20, 2021 1:10pm

Wilfred,

I am also a teenager from the sixties, the front half, '60-'65. I am not sure if that also makes me senior to you but don't worry about respect. Anyone reading your comments knows you have respect for everyone that plies these pages.

I would like you to clarify your vote for Trump. Did you vote for him in 2016 or 2020 or, heaven forbid, both?

Ray Fowler Sep 20, 2021 2:23pm

Tafhdyd... a new week is upon us...

Yes, Wilfredo's comment on Trump might need some elaboration. It could mean... and I'm guessing... that the Donald irritated both sides, and therefore was not beholden to please either the DNC or the RNC. Maybe. We'll have to wait for Wilfredo to wade out of the stream and put away his fishing gear before we get an answer.

Do you think there is any "buyer's remorse" out there on the left due to the border situation, inflation, Afghanistan, etc.? Just asking.

Yes, you have a couple of years... only a couple... on me and Wilfredo. You're a Viet vet... thanks, buddy... heroes one and all. Here is the video I posted earlier about a Viet hero... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ7968BbMnU ...it's really worth watching.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Sep 20, 2021 3:34pm

Tafhdyd,

Hello my friend. Yes sir, I was born in 1953. You are my senior, but my respect for you is given because I give what I get. Your post to my first L.T.E. was well written.

Men like D.J. Trump are the antithesis of my ideal man. In fact, his public persona offends me. But I love the way he exposes the weak intellects of politicos and the mass media. In that respect Mr. Fowler is spot on with his 1:23 PM take of my post.

My 2016 and 2020 votes went to Trump because he is an enemy of my enemy, the R.N.C. It doesn't matter to me what the D.N.C. does. They lost me with L.B.J. IMO, his handling of Vietnam was as bad as G.W. Bush in Iraq. In neither conflict do I fault our G.I.'s. They are eternally beloved by me.

Thank you for your tip of the hat regarding my behavior on these pages. One can never be certain if their intent is received by others. And sadly, sometimes, it is too delicious to pass by. 😈

Tafhdyd Sep 20, 2021 8:08pm

Ray,

I tried the link but got a sign in message due to adult content. Being as I don't have Facebook, Google or any other social media I couldn't view it yet. I will look up the info on line and see if there is another link that will work or check with a neighbor that does have social media. BTW, I served four years '65-'69 during Viet Nam but luckily not in the jungle. The first ship I was on was an icebreaker stationed on the east coast but we spent most of our time in the Arctic and Antarctica. The last year and a half I got stationed back here in SF and worked the Pacific coast.

As for the buyers remorse, I am sure there are many that do but not me, especially Afghanistan. It is a mess that will be rehashed for years but we are are gone from a multi-generation tribal war that we never should have been in to start with.

Tafhdyd Sep 20, 2021 8:55pm

Wilfred,

I can understand your dislike of the politicians on both sides of the coin and I understand the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I also can see voting for Trump the first time being as he was a different kind of animal, (sorry animals, no insult intended). To vote for him the second time after seeing what kind of lying conman, grifter and narcissist he is is something I don't understand, especially after you said in your comment above that you viscerally detest liars. You and I both know that politicians, right, left or center lie, it just depends on what subject they are lying about. I hope you are not going to tell me that because Trump isn't a true politician, he doesn't lie.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Sep 21, 2021 12:34am

Tafhdyd,

If you are asking me if I believe Trump lies, the answer is emphatically yes. However, I also think Trump is not as dangerous to our nation as Biden. Once again, the devil is in the details. So aside from that, I'd rather watch the mass media clown show Trump produces than the one produced for Biden. Ray, that is my way of saying you are correct. I do not think Trump is beholden or controlled by the establishment.

Tafhdyd, I am not a man that goes along to get along. I don't believe in the status quo. Had I done so, I would not have semi-retired in 1992 and officially in 2007. I would still be working at JCPenney as an affirmative action hire. No thanks. America gives people like me an opportunity to succeed. Really succeed. BTW, it is my love of family that fuels the fire. Not ego.

To close, I will say that I am heartbroken to see how California has changed since I left in 1978. But I remind myself, there are different strokes for different folks. I live free in Alaska, you in California. Let us work together to keep politicians and the mass media in check. IMHO, they are the real enemy.

Tafhdyd Sep 21, 2021 9:37am

Wilfred,

Once again I admire your straight forward reply and your unwavering convictions and beliefs. In your numerous comments over the year you are consistent. I know where you stand on most articles and I think you know my basic beliefs. The world would be a better place with more Wilfreds in our midst.

As you might expect, I disagree with your assessment of the Donald. There is no way you will convince me that he is the lesser of two evils. IMO he is an unhinged narcissist off the deep end. His only equal may be the Devil himself. The one and only concern of DJT is DJT. He will throw anyone under the bus to get what he thinks he should have. By anyone I am including his family, as we will see him do once the SDNY puts the heat on with their indictments next year. When most of the people that have worked for him and left or have been fired say the same thing there is very little left to the imagination. The gullible right wing followers will say they are just disgruntled employees looking to get even and make a quick buck. When 3/4ths of the employees are disgruntled the problem is with the one in charge, none other than DJT.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Sep 21, 2021 8:15pm

Tafhdyd,

I am moved by the kindness expressed in your first paragraph. I hope you know I think likewise of you.

When I participate in these forums, I do so that I may learn how to think differently. Not to persuade others. Like you, I know when to agree to disagree. Because typically there is more than one road leading to the same destination.

That said, my opinion about the lesser evil is rooted in the fact that Trump flies solo. Unlike politicos. Think what you will, most of what Trump accomplished is being undone and I don't know to what end.

Terence Y Sep 18, 2021 10:48am

Mr. Carboni – thank you for your letter. Let’s hope that King Newsom actually begins to make an impact to make CA great again, although I expect that’s more up to the unions and special interests than Newsom. If the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and CA continues to devolve into third world status with lack of electricity and water, well, the people have spoken and they get the government they deserve.

Tommy Tee Sep 18, 2021 12:07pm

100% Happy with the results of the recall!

Dirk van Ulden Sep 18, 2021 1:50pm

Hey Tommy - apparently it does not take much to make you happy.

Tommy Tee Sep 18, 2021 3:20pm

Thank you, Dirk--you're a real mensch.

edkahl Sep 18, 2021 2:49pm

Agree with your letter. Hard to understand how Californians are willing to put up with corrupt state government that does notihng to solve our big problems like lack of water, fires, black outs, homeless on the streets , border immigration, failing schools and high taxes as they focus on things the aren't going to get us but fatten their political donations

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