Kent Lauder’s superb guest perspective, “War on Science” (Daily Journal, July 23) brought out the most science challenged commentators in the online edition. They seemed very eager to expose their total lack of not only understanding, but disrespect for scientists who do so much good work for all of us, and the world at large. It is mind boggling how ignorant some can be, even bragging about their lack of even the most basic understanding of long-standing scientific facts. Totally uneducated, or what?
These are clear examples of the well-known Dunning Kruger Effect, meaning that some people are simply too stupid to understand how stupid they are. But of course, they won’t understand that! Dr. Anthony Fauci’s book “On Call” gives us a shocking insight into what a scientist like him, credited with saving millions of people from pandemics, including COVID-19 and the like, are being haunted by people threatening to kill both him, his wife and daughters, in addition to burning down their house. The book also shows how ignorant his boss at the time, Donald Trump was, resulting in vaccination delays and countless unnecessary deaths, far more than comparative countries.
The ignoramuses waste no time bragging about their lack of knowledge and understanding every opportunity they can cook up — while blindly voting for someone they can identify with, like Trump. No wonder Republicans are against education, although they all benefit from the work done by educated people — even scientists like Fauci.
Jorg - next time look up the definition of a scientist. He or she acquires systematic knowledge, especially knowledge that can be measured precisely. That definition does not include what this scientific pursuit can produce, neither with a positive nor a negative outcome. In other words, science is not holy and your opinion in this matter is not helpful but borders on the the ailment that you attempt to describe. Back to the drawing board, Jorg!
Jorg… there you go again (with apologies to Dutch Reagan)
Another mash up of tropes oft posted in the past. I guess they don’t have expiration dates…
The Dunning-Kruger effect cannot be reduced to your misapplication of the D-K effect when you suggest people who disagree with your political ideology “are simply too stupid to understand how stupid they are.” According to Dr. Robert D. McIntosh, professor of experimental neuropsychology, that’s not what the D-K effect is about. It’s not about intelligence; it’s about persons with low skill levels overestimating their abilities. You know… like Joe Biden.
Do you have an explanation why Dunning and Kruger’s description of the cognitive bias that forms the basis of the D-K effect was awarded an Ig Nobel Prize?
Sorry, Ray! If anything, the D -K is even more important for “intellectual’ pursuits, while usually more difficult to realize for those affected. For more practical matters, with tangible results, the shortcomings are usually more obvious, and often easier to see, even for the ones affected.
Sorry, Jorg!! If you plan to hold fast to your opinion that the D-K effect describing what D and K believe is a cognitive bias is really about intelligence, can you tell us why world-renowned neuropsychologist, Robert D. McIntosh, is wrong when he says it's not about intelligence? As I have said before, your Miss Google is a fickle mistress. It is folly to type a key word into a search engine then grab a phrase or two and present them as the be-all and end-all on any subject... including the Dunning-Kruger effect.
BTW... if there is such a thing as the D-K effect, it would affect everybody... not just the folks who disagree with you. However, researchers now question Dunning and Kruger's findings based on the statistical methods used by D and K.
Any comment on Dunning and Kruger being awarded the Ig Noble Prize?
Ray: When I jokingly refer to “Miss Google”, I mean searching for information available on the net, which is a faster way than searching through printed material. Among numerous references to the D-K, you will find:
The Dunning-Kruger Effect May Help Explain Trump's Support
A new study suggests some people grossly overestimate their political knowledge.
Posted August 22, 2018 | Reviewed by Abigail Fagan
Key points
• The Dunning-Kruger effect is a type of cognitive bias where people with little expertise assume they have superior expertise.
• Republicans tend to be less educated than Democrats according to research, making them possibly more vulnerable to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
• The Dunning-Kruger effect could potentially make it easier for Donald Trump to deliver unchallenged falsehoods to his supporters.
The author of the article you cited says the D-K effect may explain support for Trump. The article discusses what are described as low information voters on the right side of the aisle but also makes mention that persons, no matter their political affiliation, can be affected. But if it's true that some folks on the right are less informed... what does that say for those on the left that are misinformed? Spoxes on the left continue to drum into the blue team faithful misinformation about Charlottesville, a Muslim ban, lies about Hunter's laptop, and Putin's affinity for Trump. BTW... did you see the news today? Putin exchanged Americans being held in Russia. Who do you think that helps... Trump or Harris? Speaking of misinformation... looks like more information may be headed your way from Iranian bots. Gosh, do you think those guys are supporting Trump in 2024? And the biggest bunch of misinformation maybe ever in Amercian politics... the left's line... oft repeated by Kamala... that Joe was OK. We all know he's not OK, and the DNC folks who pushed that false narrative know that everyone now knows Joe was not OK.
Sorry, Jorg... your posts have misapplied the D-K effect. It's like a college freshman 50 years ago at home for Thanksgiving saying at the dinner table, "Hey mom, hey dad... did you know that Che Guevara was a really cool guy!" BTW... the same publication you reference earlier also reported that Republicans are happier than Democrats. What do you think about that? Perhaps we should form opinions based on looking at an issue from all sides instead of grabbing phrases off MSM clickbait. That probably means cutting the cord to MSNBC.
Oh, yeah... curious about the Ig Nobel Prize? Google it!
Hilarious - hey Jorg, are you talking about the Mr. Fauci who admitted he made up masking and social distancing rules? Are you talking about the Mr. Fauci who knew hydroxychloroquine was an effective treatment for COVID yet publicly stated it was not a valid COVID treatment, leading to untold thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands to suffer and die? The bigger question regarding Mr. Fauci is whether he had an assist killing more people than Stalin or Hitler. And you hold up Mr. Fauci as an example? This LTE sounds more like a self-reflection. After all, you seem to waste a lot of time bragging about your interpretations of the Second Amendment and the Electoral College yet nobody, especially judges, agree with you. Now in the question of whether others are indicative of the Dunning-Kruger effect or whether you are, I think we all know the answer. And that answer starts with J and ends in –org.
What playbook believes civil debate entails calling those who disagree, ignorant, stupid, braggers, uneducated, blind ignoramuses? Perhaps one day Jorg will put his hate aside and his inability to fathom that he is not Mr. Know-it-all. Unfortunately Jorg's mind is closed tighter that a pit-bull in heat, but we can all still pray for "hope and change."
It's not just ignorance though, is it Jorg? It is much worse. Note the response comparing Dr Fauci, who has devoted his entire career to saving lives, to Stalin or Hitler. They are universally willing to demote any they disagree with to a subhuman status. I do not understand the mental gymnastics of these commentators, but I applaud that you continue to address it. We are headed down a very dark road indeed if these insanities continue to grow and spread.
Westy - are you even aware of the fact that Fauci financed the research in China that either by mistake or on purpose allowed the virus to escape from his financed laboratory? Are you that ignorant to credit a fire fighter with attempting to extinguish a fire that he himself started? I thought always that you were smarter than that but I will take that back. Jorg is off the rails and has been for some time.
Yes Jorg - from the same utter nonsense source that denied the existence of Hunter's laptop. Do you recall saying that and it had nothing to do with Biden's election? Keep on going buddy and dig your cultist hole even deeper.
Come on Jorg, are you ever informed? At what point will you take your head out of the sand and be honest? You lie, lie and lie and when you're called on your lies you ghost...
I dare you to inform yourself https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/HHRG-117-GO24-20211201-SD004.pdf
It's not just ignorance though, is it Westy? It is much worse. It is willful ignorance. Isn’t it telling that someone complaining about a response comparing Dr Fauci to Stalin or Hitler conveniently ignores the Biden campaign, Jake Tapper, Hillary Clinton, Jenifer Lewis, John Cleese, Claire McCaskill, and many other idiots that compared Hitler to Trump? It seems they (you) are universally willing to demote any they disagree with to a subhuman status. I do not understand the mental gymnastics of these folks but I applaud that you continue your tendency towards hypocrisy. It speaks to your lack of credibility. We are headed down a very dark road indeed if these insanities, and continued willful ignorance, continue to grow and spread. Don’t be part of the problem, be a part of the solution towards a brighter future.
TY: A convicted criminal like Trump is the perfect cult leader for Republicans, who can’t win anything without lying, stealing and cheating, with the help of fake religiosity.
No at all, Nutso! I just stated the obvious about Trump and don’t deserve such accolade for just reminding every thinking person about what we are dealing with, thanks to the brainless MAGA hatters.
Thank you for coming out so quickly to underscore my point, - although you wouldn’t understand that, of course. Just to clarify a misunderstanding: The Dunning-Kruger Effect has been found in domains ranging from logical reasoning to emotional intelligence, and thus goes far beyond just practical competence. Why do people think they know more than they do?
Trump is a clear example of someone seriously affected by D-K: “Only I can fix it” and “I’m a stable genius”, “I know everything better than anybody”. He childishly bragged publicly about being able to remember 5 simple words, and thus impressing his testers, according to his own assessment! D-K, or what?
And to call someone like VP Kamala Harris “dumb”, someone much brighter than himself, so much better educated, and so much more accomplished, - wouldn’t that be the epitome of the D-K Effect, while raising a question about the mental capabilities of his followers? To be fair, Trump is at least smart enough to be afraid of a debate with the Democratic presidential contender, who would wipe the basement floor with whatever would be left of him.
And then we have the disastrous interview with the National Association of Black Journalists´ event! When he came in to get their support, they openly laughed at him, and for good reason. He showed that he doesn’t even know what defines a black person, - nor is he mature enough to admit he lost the 2020 election, fair and square! D-K, or what?
Actually, Jorg, our (yes, our) great President Trump has extended an invitation to Harris for a debate. I don’t believe Harris has responded and I wouldn’t be surprised if she's a no show. You know, like the National Association of Black Journalists’ event she was invited to. I’m not surprised since Harris is well aware Trump wiped the basement floor with Biden, or whatever is left of him. I would expect the same result, except Harris would be cackling her way through a debate.
Again, you have turned things upside-down, inside-out, TY! Watching too much FOX Fake Snus, I suppose? It is widely known that Kamala Harris would love a debate with Trump, - strange that you haven’t understood that! Let’s wait and see if there will be a debate, shall we? However, you should know that when it goes as bad for Trump as expected, your FFS-channel will break away, and you’ll not learn about it since you habitually shy away from real news channels, like CNN and MSNBC! It is also obvious that you don’t read newspapers or books, or is it simply that you don’t understand what you read?
Another JUNC (Jorg’s Usual Nonsense Conniption) comment... Hey Jorg, everyone shies away from CNN and MSNBC. Fox News has more viewers on average than those two fake news channels – combined. And speaking of not understanding what you read, once you understand the Second Amendment or the Electoral College then I’ll take you seriously. As Dirk says, “Keep on going buddy and dig your cultist hole even deeper.”
6 feet apart Jorg! - remember to wear a mask and pray daily at your Altar of St. Fauci and jab yourself with 10 more boosters!. That guy could be the slimiest liar on planet earth behind Old Showerin' Potato Joe.
LittleFoot – good one. I bet Jorg's interpretation of your comment means Jorg is looking for his other 4 feet and wondering how far to place them apart. And only one mask? I think St. Fauci said two, didn’t he? Or was it five? I bet even with all of Jorg’s boosters, he still got COVID.
Keep the discussion civilized. Absolutely NO
personal attacks or insults directed toward writers, nor others who
make comments. Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd,
racist or sexually-oriented language. Don't threaten. Threats of harming another
person will not be tolerated. Be truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone
or anything. Be proactive. Use the 'Report' link on
each comment to let us know of abusive posts. PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK. Anyone violating these rules will be issued a
warning. After the warning, comment privileges can be
revoked.
Please purchase a Premium Subscription to continue reading.
To continue, please log in, or sign up for a new account.
We offer one free story view per month. If you register for an account, you will get two additional story views. After those three total views, we ask that you support us with a subscription.
A subscription to our digital content is so much more than just access to our valuable content. It means you’re helping to support a local community institution that has, from its very start, supported the betterment of our society. Thank you very much!
(28) comments
Jorg - next time look up the definition of a scientist. He or she acquires systematic knowledge, especially knowledge that can be measured precisely. That definition does not include what this scientific pursuit can produce, neither with a positive nor a negative outcome. In other words, science is not holy and your opinion in this matter is not helpful but borders on the the ailment that you attempt to describe. Back to the drawing board, Jorg!
Not at all surprising, DirK, that you came out so quickly to underscore my points! Thank you!
Jorg… there you go again (with apologies to Dutch Reagan)
Another mash up of tropes oft posted in the past. I guess they don’t have expiration dates…
The Dunning-Kruger effect cannot be reduced to your misapplication of the D-K effect when you suggest people who disagree with your political ideology “are simply too stupid to understand how stupid they are.” According to Dr. Robert D. McIntosh, professor of experimental neuropsychology, that’s not what the D-K effect is about. It’s not about intelligence; it’s about persons with low skill levels overestimating their abilities. You know… like Joe Biden.
Do you have an explanation why Dunning and Kruger’s description of the cognitive bias that forms the basis of the D-K effect was awarded an Ig Nobel Prize?
Sorry, Ray! If anything, the D -K is even more important for “intellectual’ pursuits, while usually more difficult to realize for those affected. For more practical matters, with tangible results, the shortcomings are usually more obvious, and often easier to see, even for the ones affected.
Sorry, Jorg!! If you plan to hold fast to your opinion that the D-K effect describing what D and K believe is a cognitive bias is really about intelligence, can you tell us why world-renowned neuropsychologist, Robert D. McIntosh, is wrong when he says it's not about intelligence? As I have said before, your Miss Google is a fickle mistress. It is folly to type a key word into a search engine then grab a phrase or two and present them as the be-all and end-all on any subject... including the Dunning-Kruger effect.
BTW... if there is such a thing as the D-K effect, it would affect everybody... not just the folks who disagree with you. However, researchers now question Dunning and Kruger's findings based on the statistical methods used by D and K.
Any comment on Dunning and Kruger being awarded the Ig Noble Prize?
I don't think so, but for the sake of argument, which category did you have in mind, and what do you mean by "Ig Noble Prize"?
Ray: When I jokingly refer to “Miss Google”, I mean searching for information available on the net, which is a faster way than searching through printed material. Among numerous references to the D-K, you will find:
The Dunning-Kruger Effect May Help Explain Trump's Support
A new study suggests some people grossly overestimate their political knowledge.
Posted August 22, 2018 | Reviewed by Abigail Fagan
Key points
• The Dunning-Kruger effect is a type of cognitive bias where people with little expertise assume they have superior expertise.
• Republicans tend to be less educated than Democrats according to research, making them possibly more vulnerable to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
• The Dunning-Kruger effect could potentially make it easier for Donald Trump to deliver unchallenged falsehoods to his supporters.
Did that help?
Jorg
The author of the article you cited says the D-K effect may explain support for Trump. The article discusses what are described as low information voters on the right side of the aisle but also makes mention that persons, no matter their political affiliation, can be affected. But if it's true that some folks on the right are less informed... what does that say for those on the left that are misinformed? Spoxes on the left continue to drum into the blue team faithful misinformation about Charlottesville, a Muslim ban, lies about Hunter's laptop, and Putin's affinity for Trump. BTW... did you see the news today? Putin exchanged Americans being held in Russia. Who do you think that helps... Trump or Harris? Speaking of misinformation... looks like more information may be headed your way from Iranian bots. Gosh, do you think those guys are supporting Trump in 2024? And the biggest bunch of misinformation maybe ever in Amercian politics... the left's line... oft repeated by Kamala... that Joe was OK. We all know he's not OK, and the DNC folks who pushed that false narrative know that everyone now knows Joe was not OK.
Sorry, Jorg... your posts have misapplied the D-K effect. It's like a college freshman 50 years ago at home for Thanksgiving saying at the dinner table, "Hey mom, hey dad... did you know that Che Guevara was a really cool guy!" BTW... the same publication you reference earlier also reported that Republicans are happier than Democrats. What do you think about that? Perhaps we should form opinions based on looking at an issue from all sides instead of grabbing phrases off MSM clickbait. That probably means cutting the cord to MSNBC.
Oh, yeah... curious about the Ig Nobel Prize? Google it!
Hilarious - hey Jorg, are you talking about the Mr. Fauci who admitted he made up masking and social distancing rules? Are you talking about the Mr. Fauci who knew hydroxychloroquine was an effective treatment for COVID yet publicly stated it was not a valid COVID treatment, leading to untold thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands to suffer and die? The bigger question regarding Mr. Fauci is whether he had an assist killing more people than Stalin or Hitler. And you hold up Mr. Fauci as an example? This LTE sounds more like a self-reflection. After all, you seem to waste a lot of time bragging about your interpretations of the Second Amendment and the Electoral College yet nobody, especially judges, agree with you. Now in the question of whether others are indicative of the Dunning-Kruger effect or whether you are, I think we all know the answer. And that answer starts with J and ends in –org.
What playbook believes civil debate entails calling those who disagree, ignorant, stupid, braggers, uneducated, blind ignoramuses? Perhaps one day Jorg will put his hate aside and his inability to fathom that he is not Mr. Know-it-all. Unfortunately Jorg's mind is closed tighter that a pit-bull in heat, but we can all still pray for "hope and change."
It's not just ignorance though, is it Jorg? It is much worse. Note the response comparing Dr Fauci, who has devoted his entire career to saving lives, to Stalin or Hitler. They are universally willing to demote any they disagree with to a subhuman status. I do not understand the mental gymnastics of these commentators, but I applaud that you continue to address it. We are headed down a very dark road indeed if these insanities continue to grow and spread.
Westy - are you even aware of the fact that Fauci financed the research in China that either by mistake or on purpose allowed the virus to escape from his financed laboratory? Are you that ignorant to credit a fire fighter with attempting to extinguish a fire that he himself started? I thought always that you were smarter than that but I will take that back. Jorg is off the rails and has been for some time.
From where do you get such utter nonsense, Dirk? From the Fox Fake Snus channel, I suppose?
Yes Jorg - from the same utter nonsense source that denied the existence of Hunter's laptop. Do you recall saying that and it had nothing to do with Biden's election? Keep on going buddy and dig your cultist hole even deeper.
Come on Jorg, are you ever informed? At what point will you take your head out of the sand and be honest? You lie, lie and lie and when you're called on your lies you ghost...
I dare you to inform yourself https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/HHRG-117-GO24-20211201-SD004.pdf
It's not just ignorance though, is it Westy? It is much worse. It is willful ignorance. Isn’t it telling that someone complaining about a response comparing Dr Fauci to Stalin or Hitler conveniently ignores the Biden campaign, Jake Tapper, Hillary Clinton, Jenifer Lewis, John Cleese, Claire McCaskill, and many other idiots that compared Hitler to Trump? It seems they (you) are universally willing to demote any they disagree with to a subhuman status. I do not understand the mental gymnastics of these folks but I applaud that you continue your tendency towards hypocrisy. It speaks to your lack of credibility. We are headed down a very dark road indeed if these insanities, and continued willful ignorance, continue to grow and spread. Don’t be part of the problem, be a part of the solution towards a brighter future.
TY: A convicted criminal like Trump is the perfect cult leader for Republicans, who can’t win anything without lying, stealing and cheating, with the help of fake religiosity.
Boy you got us... , you're brilliant!
No at all, Nutso! I just stated the obvious about Trump and don’t deserve such accolade for just reminding every thinking person about what we are dealing with, thanks to the brainless MAGA hatters.
Thank you for coming out so quickly to underscore my point, - although you wouldn’t understand that, of course. Just to clarify a misunderstanding: The Dunning-Kruger Effect has been found in domains ranging from logical reasoning to emotional intelligence, and thus goes far beyond just practical competence. Why do people think they know more than they do?
Trump is a clear example of someone seriously affected by D-K: “Only I can fix it” and “I’m a stable genius”, “I know everything better than anybody”. He childishly bragged publicly about being able to remember 5 simple words, and thus impressing his testers, according to his own assessment! D-K, or what?
And to call someone like VP Kamala Harris “dumb”, someone much brighter than himself, so much better educated, and so much more accomplished, - wouldn’t that be the epitome of the D-K Effect, while raising a question about the mental capabilities of his followers? To be fair, Trump is at least smart enough to be afraid of a debate with the Democratic presidential contender, who would wipe the basement floor with whatever would be left of him.
And then we have the disastrous interview with the National Association of Black Journalists´ event! When he came in to get their support, they openly laughed at him, and for good reason. He showed that he doesn’t even know what defines a black person, - nor is he mature enough to admit he lost the 2020 election, fair and square! D-K, or what?
Actually, Jorg, our (yes, our) great President Trump has extended an invitation to Harris for a debate. I don’t believe Harris has responded and I wouldn’t be surprised if she's a no show. You know, like the National Association of Black Journalists’ event she was invited to. I’m not surprised since Harris is well aware Trump wiped the basement floor with Biden, or whatever is left of him. I would expect the same result, except Harris would be cackling her way through a debate.
Again, you have turned things upside-down, inside-out, TY! Watching too much FOX Fake Snus, I suppose? It is widely known that Kamala Harris would love a debate with Trump, - strange that you haven’t understood that! Let’s wait and see if there will be a debate, shall we? However, you should know that when it goes as bad for Trump as expected, your FFS-channel will break away, and you’ll not learn about it since you habitually shy away from real news channels, like CNN and MSNBC! It is also obvious that you don’t read newspapers or books, or is it simply that you don’t understand what you read?
Another JUNC (Jorg’s Usual Nonsense Conniption) comment... Hey Jorg, everyone shies away from CNN and MSNBC. Fox News has more viewers on average than those two fake news channels – combined. And speaking of not understanding what you read, once you understand the Second Amendment or the Electoral College then I’ll take you seriously. As Dirk says, “Keep on going buddy and dig your cultist hole even deeper.”
You're delusional and a serial liar....
6 feet apart Jorg! - remember to wear a mask and pray daily at your Altar of St. Fauci and jab yourself with 10 more boosters!. That guy could be the slimiest liar on planet earth behind Old Showerin' Potato Joe.
As I said, D-K is alive and well on this site!
LittleFoot – good one. I bet Jorg's interpretation of your comment means Jorg is looking for his other 4 feet and wondering how far to place them apart. And only one mask? I think St. Fauci said two, didn’t he? Or was it five? I bet even with all of Jorg’s boosters, he still got COVID.
Just happy to disappoint you, TY: No Covid for me, probably because I got the shots and the boosters, and I wore a mask whenever advised to do so.
Welcome to the discussion.
Log In
Keep the discussion civilized. Absolutely NO personal attacks or insults directed toward writers, nor others who make comments.
Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
Don't threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
Be truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK.
Anyone violating these rules will be issued a warning. After the warning, comment privileges can be revoked.