Jan. 6 witness: Trump 'detached from reality' over election

Son-in-law Jared Kushner tried to steer Trump away from attorney Rudy Giuliani and his far-flung theories of voter fraud that advisers believed were not true. Trump would have none of it.

The back-and-forth intensified in the run-up to Jan. 6. Former Justice Department official Richard Donoghue recalled breaking down one claim after another — from a truckload of ballots in Pennsylvania to a missing suitcase of ballots in Georgia —- and telling Trump "much of the info you're getting is false."

"He was becoming detached from reality," said former Attorney General William Barr, who called the voting fraud claims "bull——," "bogus" and "idiotic," and resigned in the aftermath. "I didn't want to be a part of it."

The witness testimony was shown as the House committee focused on the "big lie," Trump's false claims of voter fraud that fueled the defeated Republican president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election and provoked a mob of his supporters to lay siege to the U.S. Capitol.

The panel also provided new information about how Trump's fundraising machine collected some $250 million in the aftermath of the November election to keep fighting, mostly from small-dollar donations from Americans. One plea for cash went out 30 minutes before the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection.

"Not only was there the big lie, there was the big ripoff," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.

Chairman Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., opened Monday's hearing saying Trump "betrayed the trust of the American people" and "tried to remain in office when people had voted him out."

As the hearings play our for the public, they are also being watched by one of the most important viewers, Attorney General Merrick Garland, who must decide whether his department can and should prosecute Trump. No sitting or former president has ever faced such charges.

"I am watching, I will be watching all of the hearings," Garland said Monday at a press briefing at the Justice Department. "I may not be able to watch all of it live, but I'm sure I will be watching all of it, and I can assure you the Jan. 6 prosecutors are watching all of the hearings as well."

Biden was getting updates but not watching "blow by blow," said White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.

Stepien was to be a key in-person witness Monday but abruptly backed out of appearing live because his wife went into labor. Stepien, who is still close to Trump, had been subpoenaed to appear. He is now a top campaign adviser to the Trump-endorsed House candidate, Harriet Hageman, who is challenging committee vice chair Liz Cheney in the Wyoming Republican primary.

The panel marched ahead after a delayed morning scramble, showing previously recorded testimony from the Republican aides as Trump latched on to repeated false claims about the election although those closest told him the theories of stolen ballots or rigged voting machines were not true.

Stepien and senior adviser Jason Miller described how the festive mood at the White House on election night turned as Fox News announced Trump had lost the state of Arizona to Joe Biden, and aides worked to counsel Trump on what to do next.

But he ignored their advice, choosing to listen instead to Giuliani, who was described as inebriated by several witnesses. Giuliani issued a general denial on Monday, rejecting "all falsehoods" he said were being said about him.

Stepien said, "My belief, my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted, it's too early to tell, too early to call the race,."

But Trump "thought I was wrong. He told me so."

Barr, who had also testified in last week's blockbuster hearing, said that Trump was "as mad as I'd ever seen him" when the attorney general later explained that the Justice Department would not take sides in the election.

Chairman Thompson and vice chair Cheney, led the hearing after last week's prime-time session drew nearly 20 million Americans to see its findings.

For the past year, the committee has been investigating the most violent attack on the Capitol since the War of 1812 to ensure such an assault never happens again. Lawmakers hope to show that Trump's effort to overturn Biden's election victory posed a grave threat to democracy.

Monday's hearing also featured live witnesses, including Chris Stirewalt, a former Fox News Channel political editor who declared on Election Night that Arizona was being won by Biden.

Also appearing was the former U.S. attorney in Atlanta, BJay Pak, who abruptly resigned after Trump pressured Georgia state officials to overturn his defeat. Trump wanted to fire Pak as disloyal, but Pak stepped down after Trump's call became public in which he urged Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's win in the state.

The panel also heard from elections lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg who discussed the norms of election campaign challenges, and former Philadelphia City Commissioner Al Schmidt, the only Republican on the city's election board, who told the panel that regardless of how "fantastical" some of the claims that Trump and his team were making, the city officials investigated. He discussed facing threats after Trump criticized him in a tweet.

As he mulls another White House run, Trump insists the committee's investigation is a "witch hunt." Last week he said Jan. 6 "represented the greatest movement in the history of our country."

Nine people died in the riot and its aftermath, including a Trump supporter shot and killed by Capitol police. More than 800 people have been arrested in the siege, and members of two extremist groups have been indicted on rare sedition charges over their roles leading the charge into the Capitol.

Additional evidence is to be released in hearings this week focusing on Trump's decision to ignore the outcome of the election and the court cases that ruled against him, and beckon supporters to Washington on Jan. 6 to overturn Biden's victory as Congress was set to certify the Electoral College results..

Lawmakers left no doubt as to their own view whether the evidence is sufficient to proceed.

"Once the evidence is accumulated by the Justice Department, it needs to make a decision about whether it can prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt the president's guilt or anyone else's," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif, a panel member. "But they need to be investigated if there's credible evidence, which I think there is."

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Associated Press writers Kevin Freking and Michael Balsamo and Farnoush Amiri in Washington and Jill Colvin in New York contributed to this report.

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For full coverage of the Jan. 6 hearings, go to https://www.apnews.com/capitol-siege.