Even in blackouts, there are ways to use alternative sources of clean energy

Apr 7, 2023
Apr 7, 2023 Updated Apr 13, 2025
18

Editor,

I’m writing to say thank you to PG&E for its rapid response to the storm on March 21 and to share my belief that we still need to move forward with electrification and quitting carbon.

(18) comments

Dirk van Ulden Apr 7, 2023 11:54am

Dear Leanne - what you are proposing is going back to 19th Century electricity reliability. We should not in this century have to deal with this, not in the USA. It is like forcing all of us to move out of our homes and go camping.

Terence Y Apr 7, 2023 12:05pm

Or, Leane, instead of folks tying themselves into knots figuring out methods to get by without gas, just let folks continue to have both options at the ready. The proposed solutions involve conveniently forgetting the environmental costs of producing batteries and solar panels: raw mineral mining, production, and more importantly, their eventual disposal. And let’s not forget the added consumer costs for these substitutes. It may be easier for folks to save money if they, or they hire a bunch of folks to, run/bike on a magnetic flywheel (imagine a supersized hamster wheel) and use the truly magic relationship between magnetism and electricity to generate their own electricity. Onwards to our electric future, while becoming a healthier person (just make sure to talk to your doctor before embarking on a new running/biking exercise routine).

edkahl Apr 7, 2023 3:21pm

There are no proven deaths from using natural gas in a home but 400 people die from accidental electrocutions in homes each year. An induction oven is about $1,500 plus labor to install a 220v plug and it wouldn’t be able to heat the kitchen like a gas stove. A 4 hour battery isn't worth the money. No EV owner would want to decrease the life of their $3,000 EV battery by using it for the home. Lithium wall batteries start at $10,000. Probably the bicycles are the best idea but a little hard to hook up. But keep trying and you might come up with something.

Westy Apr 7, 2023 6:23pm

Hiya Ed! You might want to double check your facts there. Here's a recent quote from the CDC: "Every year, at least 420 people die in the U.S. from accidental CO poisoning. More than 100,000 people in the U.S. visit the emergency department each year due to accidental CO poisoning." That's why we all need a CO2 detector in the house--because a gas leak can kill you in your sleep. Yes, some of those are from auto fumes backing up from the garage, but many are from natural gas appliances.

And 8 people died in 2010 in the San Bruno gas pipeline explosion--remember that? Horrific scene. People in the neighborhood did not even know there was a pipeline there.

Agree with you that electric bicycles are a fabulous alternative. (If only it felt safe to ride a bike on the street around here.)

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Apr 8, 2023 1:11am

Westy,

I enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Thanks.

As an aside, tonight, I heard that since 2005, we have "spent" 330 billion dollars on biofuels. It made me wonder how that compares to oil company tax breaks. Would you happen to know? Both GW Bush and B Obama were enthusiastic proponents of this new fuel source. It seems to me that it may have been just another feel good environmental pipe dream. What say you?

Terence Y Apr 8, 2023 8:02am

Wilfred, my friend, let’s not forget the over half billion dollars wasted just “green” energy Solyndra, among even more billions wasted on a host of other government high dollar invested “green” energy companies.

Westy Apr 8, 2023 10:49am

Thanks Wilfred! I don't follow biofuels much, but making it out of corn, which is the primary source in this country, sure does not make any sense because growing corn is very resource intensive. Including that corn is a heavy feeder and requires a lot of fertilizer, and that there are a lot of greenhouse gas emissions in the production chain.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr Apr 8, 2023 12:19pm

Westy,

I made no case for or against biofuels. My point is to show that politicians waste money on special interest groups. For those politicians, other considerations are incidental. Terence reminds us of our most recent glaring example, Solyndra. BTW, the news piece I watched had Obama drooling over the promise of seaweed, not corn. Methinks the marketplace will determine what will become of climate change malarkey. And mother earth will do whatever she wants, regardless of human activities. Meanwhile, it looks like China and Russia have their minds on other matters. Another Obama/Biden legacy, the fruit of leading from behind coming home to roost.

Tafhdyd Apr 8, 2023 2:53pm

Terence,

I know it is not part of your narrative that everything on the blue side of the aisle is bad and everything red side is good, but the DOE loan guarantee program was turning a profit several years ago even with the Solyndra loss. I checked for more current info and found the following info in a Forbes article from a couple of years ago. These are segments to save copying the entire article.

Critics of the Department of Energy (DOE) loan guarantee program have pointed to the project, and other failures such as Solyndra and Fisker, as evidence that the program is a poor use of taxpayer funds.

As of June 30, 2020, the program has issued just over $35.5 billion in loan guarantees, nearly $30 billion in funds have been disbursed, $3 billion in interest has been collected on the loans, and the loans have lost just under $800 million.

Basic accounting shows the loan portfolio to be $2.2 billion in the black as of June 30. The portfolio hasn’t lost any money, even with the failures accounted for.

Five loans, totaling $3 billion, have already been paid off. The low default rate of DOE loans (losses represent less than 3% of disbursed funds as of June 30) would be market leading for a commercial lender.

One bad apple seems to really stick in your craw. Would you be kind enough to give us the name of your financial advisor because apparently you have never had a bad investment, or for that matter, never bought anything that you were not 100% satisfied with.

Terence Y Apr 9, 2023 9:02am

Taffy, my friend, how are loans to Solyndra and other high dollar invested “green” energy losses accounted for in your balance sheet? Which industries have received money and are profitable? Are the industries making a profit invested in fossil-fuels? I highly doubt the DOE is making money from “green” investments, because if they did, they’d be promoting it until the cows came home. Of course, I wouldn’t be surprised if Biden tried to change the definition of “green.”

As to your financial advisor dig, why would I care if I make bad investments if I’m gambling with other people’s money - in the case of the DOE, taxpayer money? Let’s try an experiment… You give me trading access to your financial assets and I’ll reinvest them for you, even in investments in vehicles you’re not 100% (or any %) satisfied with and if they turn out bad, I know you’re willing to accept them because, after all, we wouldn’t want one bad apple, or dozens, to really stick in your craw. Happy Easter!

Terence Y Apr 8, 2023 8:00am

Fact check: FALSE. Here goes Westy again, making up her own narrative to push misinformation. Her soundbite from the CDC is correct, but Westy doesn’t tell you that this CDC article doesn’t say anything about deaths, “many are from natural gas appliances.” Instead, the article says, “CO is found in fumes produced by furnaces, kerosene heaters, vehicles “warmed up” in garages, stoves, lanterns, and gas ranges, portable generators, or by burning charcoal and wood. CO from these sources can build up in enclosed or partially enclosed spaces. People and animals in these spaces can be poisoned and can die from breathing CO.” So basically, another example of Westy saying anything to push her false narrative. Westy, you might want to double check your facts there.

BTW, if everyone had a CO2 detector, it'd probably always be in alarm (unless you install it next to plants?). I'd recommend everyone install a CO detector, which may actually save you whether you're asleep or not.

Westy Apr 8, 2023 11:15am

Hm, I thought I was clear that all of those deaths did not come from appliances, but that some did, and that there are additional deaths from gas pipeline accidents that should also be considered (not that we need more justification for eliminating gas than the fact that it is contributing to climate change.) Not to mention the many people who don't die but do get sick.

But thanks, as always, for your super helpful and thoughtful contribution to the discussion :-).

Terence Y Apr 9, 2023 9:03am

Westy, you’re very welcome for my helpful and thoughtful contributions. I appreciate the recognition. It’s an honor to do my part in promoting truth, justice, and the American way. These days, it’s not always glamorous but I would hope that everyone would do the same. Happy Easter!

Westy Apr 7, 2023 6:10pm

Interesting points Leanne. Though I confess I'm a bit baffled by the levels of whininess around this point ("I need my gas hookup in case the power goes out"). The power rarely goes out here, and when it does, its very rarely out for long. And in this climate, no one is going to freeze to death.

When I was a kid in Alaska, for years my family had no electricity, and when we moved to a house on the grid, the power would sometimes go out for days on end. We were fine and cozy with a 2-burner Coleman stove and a Coleman lantern. Now I keep in my earthquake kit several camping stoves (one to share with neighbors) and solar lanterns that can actually recharge my phone. So you are correct that there are even more options now. I read a great article recently about a guy who decided to try to survive for a year in New York City with no electricity other than a small portable solar panel on his partially shaded balcony. He did just fine.

Terence Y Apr 8, 2023 7:52am

Westy, speaking of whininess, how about all those folks whining about going all-electric when half our electricity is powered by natural gas? It’s as if their “green” world ends at their property line. Meanwhile, perhaps if you set an example and practice what you did when you were a kid in Alaska, others may follow. Of course, your camping stoves and solar lanterns were manufactured using fossil-fuels but I think folks will let that slide.

LittleFoot Apr 8, 2023 7:04pm

"These products exist, as do your neighbors, who in a pinch will share their freezer space with you if you ask nicely." I dont know if you are trying to be pompous or you're just a total space cadet. Why would your neighbor want to help you - when you are advocating for taking away their freedom of choice to do what is best for them and their family? This whole hilarious notion that "we are all in ""this"" together" to try to guilt people into making bad decisions is quite frankly offensive and abhorrent. People of your ilk have no true love for your fellow man - but you want him to dance to your tune. This is called Solipsism. In a true grid down scenario - you will find that nobody really cares about you. Maybe you like relying on daddy government to take care of you and feed you soup with an airplane spoon - but I rather enjoy the freedom to take care of myself.

Terence Y Apr 9, 2023 9:05am

Great insight, LittleFoot. I’d add that if a neighbor does decide to help, don’t be surprised if they start tossing out food they deem unacceptable to consume because, well, they don’t feel it’s good for you or the Earth.

Dirk van Ulden Apr 9, 2023 10:20am

Isn't it interesting that when our leadership screws up, suddenly we need to be in "this" together. "This" probably means some unspeakable substance. One never hears from them otherwise except during tax time. Let's find out how much space she has in her freezer.

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