Editor,

As I watched in horror as our country’s Capitol was attacked by a vicious mob incited by President Trump, I couldn’t help but think of all the others complicit in getting this country to the point of what amounted to attempted coup. While there is plenty of well-documented blame to go around in D.C., I look locally to the few individuals that continue to espouse unfounded conspiracy theories, encouraging unproven claims of fraudulent elections and illegal voting practices. Individuals like Mr. Grocott and others that you continually publish on your opinion page, have continued to spur division based on untrue claims that even Trump’s own attorney general say have no merit.

Yet, they continue and the SMDJ continues to give them a forum. How many people read these lies and are spurred to the kind of violence we saw on Jan. 6?

These individuals, along with this newspaper who publishes this garbage, are complicit in the division this country is dealing with and the violence and death it led to. The mission statement of the SMDJ states that the paper strives to be “accurate and fair.”

When you give forum to these right wing radicals whose idiocy encourages the worst in our society, you are neither. You are part of the problem. It was reported that Mitt Romney yelled at Ted Cruz, et al as they were under siege and being evacuated, “This is what you’ve gotten, guys!” Indeed, this is what you’ve gotten.  

Leni Liakos

Montara

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(39) comments

JME

Time for "chill pills" on the house for all........

Ray Fowler

Last night's late comment was way out of bounds, and laying what happened in DC on Trump supporters en masse is intellectually dishonest and morally repugnant.

No... the late night comment should not get a "chill pill" pass. Reread my response to the comment. I did not repay the writer in kind; a path away from the acrimony... the rancor... was offered. The writer could get some forgiveness... but how likely is he willing to ask for such remission?

Terence Y

Sure, but it’s only fair the folks on the left get their HRIG and four doses of HDCV.

JustMike650

Chris Patrick Conway Henry

Your Trumpers took his life.

https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/national/police-officers-death-intensifies-capitol-siege-questions/article_6b3eace8-51fa-11eb-a7fd-bb48b2f91f62.html#tncms-source=block-behavioral

Ray Fowler

Just Mike

If you are suggesting the mob violence in DC represents Trump supporters, then Biden supporters are responsible for mob violence across our country last summer and the deaths of nearly 20 persons, including retired police captain David Dorn. Of course, neither are true.

When an avowed Boogaloo supporter shot and killed a federal security officer then killed a sheriff's deputy with an IED, how are those acts connected to Republicans... and when an Antifa member shot and killed a counter-protester in Portland, how is that killing connected to Democrats? They're not.

Your comment is proof that no matter what Joe Biden says about unity, it will not happen. Trump supporters and Biden supporters can start finding common ground... and a good first step in that direction would be to disown extremists on the right and on the left. Maybe you could take that first step...

Terence Y

JustMikey becoming just moronic. BTW, did you pay off your $5000 loss? Or all talk no substance?

Comment deleted.
JustMike650

@Chris Conway, aka Henry Pat, another threatening jab at a poster.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Ray Fowler Jan 9, 2021 6:59pm

Wilfredo

Thanks for the pix. "Fall on Kenai" and "Six Mile Creek" look like heaven. Your wagers re: first, biggest and most were for fish, right?

Yeah, I can imagine the cold would get a little tougher each year, but the memories will always be there. Thanks for sharing...

Mr. Fowler,

Yes sir, but only rainbow trout counted.

https://www.fishalaskamagazine.com/kenai-river-rainbow-trout/

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Terence Y Jan 9, 2021 2:32pm

Amusing thoughts, but what did you expect Wilfred? Jorg has always been afraid of answering questions as his answers have holes big enough to drive a truck through. And he’s not alone. I’ve noticed the TDS infected on this site have difficulty defending their positions and resort to hate and personal attacks. When all you have is hate and ignorance… Maybe I’ll cut/paste Jorg’s standard fare and replace Trump with Biden.

Hi Terence,

Jorg reminds me of the man that called himself my father. My namesake believed and regularly claimed that there was a conspiracy in the world to make him a genius. I add, at least according to his own mind. It surprises me that men claiming intellectual superiority and professing to have the benefit of higher education, know nothing about logical fallacies and civil discourse. Maybe, just maybe, what a wise uncle told me is true. My dearest nephew he said, “the written word reveals more than the author intends”. Common sense tells me these two men, at the very least, embellish their intellect or education. Rational, logic and critical thinking skills are absent in what they say and write.

Because I have spent so much time interacting with people of all political persuasions, I refrain from faulting them for what they believe. Until I learned to seek first, contravening arguments to my own biases, I was as naïve as they. It is easy find something online to bolster what one wants to believe and the media has become proficient at providing pablum for their audiences.

Terence Y

Hi Wilfred. Your comment was too deep for me last night, due to my weak and feeble mind, as per Tommy Tee, so I had to wait until this morning to comprehend. I agree with your conclusions. People who are unable to defend their positions often resort to lies, outrage, emotion, distraction, everything under the sun but defending their positions. I think we both can easily name a handful of those types on this site.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Exactly, Terence. The inability to originate thought might also explain the need for authoritarian control in their lives.

Jorg

Leni: Trump has often been accused of only thinking about himseIf, - and rightfully so. But I never thought I would wish Trump would act more in his own best interest, - before I realized that he isn’t even bright enough to understand what that entails.

Ray Fowler

Hi, Jorg

Did you see my response to your 8 am post?

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Good day Mr. Fowler,

From childhood into retirement, I have defended the weak and feeble minded among us. I believed we all had special gifts to share for the benefit of all. Jorg has achieved what no one else ever could. He has broken me and proved, unequivocally, I was wrong. Hehehe

Tommy Tee

You should add Terence to your list.

Ray Fowler

Wilfredo, mi amigo!

You always make me laugh. I have tried, too.

Wednesday was a prime example. What started as a discussion about COVID policy switched to commentary about the riot in DC. Jorg, of course, blames Trump supporters and not the extremists responsible for the violence. (As you recall, the extremists were roundly condemned by folks on the left and the right.) Those extremists no more represent Trump supporters than Antifa represents Biden supporters.

Then Jorg asked me what do I call Trump supporters.

I responded, "... what would I call persons who still support Trump? Might be easier to say what I would not call them... uneducated. If you define education as graduating with at least a bachelor's degree from a college or university, then you win... they are uneducated. But that is such a shortsighted and demeaning way to measure the worth of someone. It does not take into account years of experience in acquiring knowledge and skills while building a career in whatever field they choose. Such a non-degree education includes the lessons learned in working with others, putting together an action plan to solve a variety of problems, running a business, accepting responsibility, helping others achieve success, and raising a family. So, I reject your labeling them as "uneducated."

Which brings us to an interesting point. Looking at the varied demographics of persons who supported Barack Obama... you will find many, many persons who were "uneducated" by your standard. The uneducated Trump voters are bad because they support Donald Trump, but the uneducated Obama voters are good because they support Barack? Wow. "Four legs good, two legs bad"?

The question... what do I call Trump supporters?

Neighbors.

What do I call Biden supporters? I call them neighbors, too. Neither is misguided, uninformed, fooled by politicians or... wait for it... uneducated."

What did Jorg say to that? Cue the sound of crickets...

So, I let him off the hook. I turned the conversation toward a column by John Horgan concerning education and John's belief that the College Board should develop an objective test for high school students to identify and reward academic excellence. Well, in my opinion the College Board is a scam and I presented reason why I disagreed with John's column. I asked Jorg for his opinion about John's column. What I got in return was an animated criticism of multiple choice tests, and how much better the assessment process is in Jorg's hometown.

Like you... I'm done.

Terence Y

Amusing thoughts, but what did you expect Wilfred? Jorg has always been afraid of answering questions as his answers have holes big enough to drive a truck through. And he’s not alone. I’ve noticed the TDS infected on this site have difficulty defending their positions and resort to hate and personal attacks. When all you have is hate and ignorance… Maybe I’ll cut/paste Jorg’s standard fare and replace Trump with Biden.

Ray Fowler

Tommy Tee

Add Terence to the list? Hardly.

I do not always agree with Terence. Here's one example, I accepted Joe Biden as president-elect more than nine weeks ago, and I said so many times. In my view, the election was over. Just yesterday, Terence and I disagreed about how to proceed with COVID vaccinations in California. So, while we don't always see eye-to-eye, Terence will respond. His language may be harsh at times, but he does not run for cover when someone comments on his point of view. To me, that is a big difference. No drive-bys.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Mr. Fowler,

Once upon a time, I was part of a late fall fishing trip on the upper Kenai River. We called it our B.O.O.M. trip. The acronym stood for Brothers Of Other Mothers. You would have been an excellent addition.

Perhaps if Jorg had the fellowship of men such as yourself, early in his life, he would not become a bitter and unfulfilled sour puss. It is my experience that successful people have grateful hearts and search for the good in others. What a shame some never learn if problems follow them, they might be the problem.

As I have previously indicated, my purpose here is to learn for the betterment of my family. So I read exchanges of others daily. I enjoyed the other day and again today, what you share. Thank you for being part of my growth and making it unnecessary to contribute a reiteration of the pearls you and Terrence write.

Tongue in cheek I say to my leftist friends, my contempt for the political class has led me to surmise that the winners of elections seem to be those that are the best liars. Think about it.

Terence Y

Hi Ray, speaking of vaccinations, Willie Brown’s column talked about how the current distribution plan is too complicated and should be simplified by administering vaccines at elementary schools. Brown also said the polio vaccine was first given out in a pink sugar cube. What? I guess that was before my time and we had to suffer an injection. So instead of kids getting a sugar cube, they get an injection? No wonder kids, and now adults, are afraid of needles. Could that account for the 40% afraid to take the COVID vaccine?

Ray Fowler

Wilfredo

Yes, even though I'm not much of a fisherman, I would have enjoyed the BOOM trips. Sounds like a great time... every time.

Thanks for the compliment. You are waaay too generous. I enjoy your perspective no matter the subject. One of these days, it would be nice to tip a horn with Tafhdyd.

While I'm no Biden supporter, I'd like to see Jan. 20 get here quickly. If he truly wants to unify the country, let him start as soon as the oath is finished. That would be good for everyone...

Ray Fowler

Hey, Terence

Sorry if you think I overstepped the boundaries of what is typically considered appropriate in my response to Tommy.

We do agree on this... some contributors resort to name calling when they cannot defend a position. That's sad. Even when we try to answer robustly, it may come off as too harsh... present company included... that's you and me. However, I do not dislike anyone on the left or right side of the aisle. They are both my neighbors...

Now, back to vaccinations... when you bring Willie B into the discussion, I cannot help but think of Quean Kamala (that's quean not queen). Her political acumen pales when compared to Willie. Ya gotta like him... he was so smooth.

I'll date myself. I remember getting those sugar cubes as a kid. They were better than needles.

Terence Y

Hi Ray, no apologies are necessary since no boundaries were overstepped. Or maybe my weak and feeble mind, as per Tommy Tee, didn’t catch your drift. In my opinion, there really isn’t such a thing as being too harsh. I’d prefer harsh to unclear or mealy-mouthed writing so keep on writing as you see fit.

Wilfred Fernandez Jr

Mr. Fowler,

It was jawboning with intelligent gentlemen, floating the scenic river and poker that I enjoyed most on those trips. It was the cold and stench of spent salmon that ended my participation. Catch and release of trout was the order of the day. Wagering on first, biggest and most was a bonus during campfire banter.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=q85XiCTQ&id=BADB972C5DD32379A47D343827E78FEFAED346F7&thid=OIP.q85XiCTQZOgXXZutVmRWIwHaE8&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fthekenai.files.wordpress.com%2f2015%2f09%2f12039297_884847671562894_5433441444778195443_n.jpg&exph=480&expw=720&q=photos+of+fall+on+the+kenai+river&simid=608022844056864406&ck=E218068540814DBCB9714E2EE54B35C0&selectedIndex=0&FORM=IRPRST&idpp=overlayview&ajaxhist=0

At least for now, most of Alaska still permits self-determination of it's citizens. You have my email address and an open invitation. Alaska Airlines has some good deals, my wife loves cooking and there are five vacant bedrooms in my home. :-)

Ray Fowler

Wilfredo

Thanks for the pix. "Fall on Kenai" and "Six Mile Creek" look like heaven. Your wagers re: first, biggest and most were for fish, right?

Yeah, I can imagine the cold would get a little tougher each year, but the memories will always be there. Thanks for sharing...

Jorg

Ray: I did, basically agreed, and had nothing to add. I may even get over being classified like Trump did for himself!

Ray Fowler

Jorg

You agreed to what?

You agree there are causes for Trump's popularity that predate his 2016 candidacy? You agree that Democratic leadership did not condemn last summer's violence until polling showed saying nothing could hurt the campaign? You agree that the extremists rioting in DC do not represent Trump supporters? You agree that Trump supporters are not uneducated? You agree that multiple choice tests can be used as an effective assessment format?

When you say you "basically" agree, what do you mean?

Ray Fowler

Scurry... scurry

Terence Y

I guess, Leni, you’re happy that Twitter and Facebook and other companies are now censoring your great President Trump. Remember, if it can happen to a president, censorship can easily affect you, and others who keep bellyaching about removing freedom of speech. Let’s hope no violence is incited by Twitter and Facebook’s censorship, but if there is, don’t be surprised. Many people live on social media and may not take too kindly to being censored. BTW, where was your outrage when the left wing radicals were storming the US Capitol during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings or the idiot BLM and Antifa goons causing death and destruction? Maybe a trip to assess your memory issues is in store.

Dirk van Ulden

Don't you love it when Leni mentions Romney as the new hero of the left. The same Romney who could not get a positive spin from the left when he was running for the presidency. As long as it is anti Trump, it serves the left. No principles at all.

Ray Fowler

Hello, Leni

Thanks for taking the time to express your viewpoint. Even though I don't agree with your suggestion to dismantle the First Amendment, I am not calling for the DJ to stop printing what you have to say just because I disagree with you.

Several DJ readers disagreed with Matt Grocott over the past week and they said so... loud and clear. That's a good thing. And when someone disagrees with a printed opinion, they have the opportunity to state their opposition to that opinion. Our Constitution gives them and you that right. I hope you are not saying the Bill of Rights should allow a reader in Montara to express himself in the DJ but a local columnist cannot do the same.

An exchange of ideas is a good thing, and reacting to Matt Grocott's column, you asked in your LTE, "How many people read these lies and are spurred to the kind of violence we saw on Jan. 6?" That's a fair question. How many are you suggesting were spurred to violence? I posted the following last week to someone who shares your point of view, "Please... describe for DJ readers exactly what Matt Grocott has ever said in print that endangers the general public... "

I'm still waiting for an answer. Do you have one?

Comment deleted.
Jorg

You are still a Trump supporter? Why? Haven’t you seen and heard what he has done, and how deeply he has betrayed his position and the country? Or, don’t you understand any of it?

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