Conversion to Islam

[GHafez7]

So now the true goals of Al Queda are revealed to the World-unconditional conversion to Islam. I wonder what the apologists on the left, such as the ACLU, CAIR, and the countless others will have to say. Will the willingly convert, even though the vast majority of the apologists are atheist? I doubt it, but I also doubt that any of their rhetoric will change. Do these people now see that 9-11, the U.S.S Cole attack, the first WTC attack and so on and so forth were not caused by American foreign policy? To say that terrorism is a direct cause of American foreign policy and support of Israel is not only irresponsible, it’s also a myth. The real cause of Middle East poverty and despair is lack of real leadership. I would remind the apologists that Yassir Arafat died a billionaire-money that was given to the Palestinians for foreign Aide. Bashir Al Asad is a multi millionair. Saddam Hussein had hundreds of millions of dollars. Why didn’t these “leaders” give the money to their people, as it was originally intentioned? It would have gone far to build up the infrastructures of these countries, it could have helped build schools, improve drinking water, improve health care. But it didn’t, instead these “leaders” grew fat and rich and their people have stayed down trodden. Its not American foreign policy that caused 9-11, its sheer hatred of our freedom, sheer hatred of our Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or our freedom of religion, thought, and speech. To say anything to the contrary is not only childish and irresponsible, its sheer ignorance of the facts.

[cynthialstern]

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

FWIW, I am an unapologetic secular humanist. The only religion that I find to be entirely non-obnoxious is Buddhism. (And it's entirely possible that if I were to know more about what Buddhist practice and belief entails, then I might find it to be obnoxious, as well. But I doubt it.)

I've always been content to have a "live and let live" attitude toward other people's religions. After all, even though I'm not religious, I do believe in the principle of the Golden Rule that states that we should treat others as we would wish ourselves to be treated, and I wouldn't want others to not have a "live and let live" attitude toward ME.

However, at least a few religions do NOT have a "live and let live" attitude: They encourage active proselytizing as a tenet of their religion. And some religions do encourage the killing of non-believers in at least some of their writings--which is contradicted in other religious writings--but I'll give you just ONE GUESS as to which passages in the holy books will be given emphasis by religious leaders when there are dissenting views to silence, opponents to be gotten rid of, land to grab, property to seize, etc.

And, if you think that Islam is the only self-described "religion of peace" whose adherents have been guilty of torture, wars, mass murders, etc., all in the name of their supposedly peaceful religion, I'd like to remind everyone about the sectarian violence that occurred in Europe during the Hundred Years' War, when the adherents of Catholicism and Protestantism fought one another for religious supremacy of Western Civilization.

Still, though, most of my friends are devout Christians or Muslims or whatever, and I have no desire to disparage their intelligence by mocking their beliefs and their perceived relationship with That Which Is Divine. I have no wish to re-imagine my friends as being enemies who are bent on my conversion or destruction--whichever it is is of little importance, because I'm either with them or I'm against them. (Hmmm...the last time that I heard something along those lines, the SDS was trying to convince me to join them in rioting. And if I wouldn't be part of their solution, then that meant that I was Part Of The Problem. Maybe the problem is not with religion per se, but, instead with all radical ideologues?)

The link at the top of this post is for a site that was set up by ex-Muslims. What they have to say about their former religion is quite educational.

[Nicola]

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

FWIW, I am an unapologetic secular humanist. The only religion that I find to be entirely non-obnoxious is Buddhism. (And it's entirely possible that if I were to know more about what Buddhist practice and belief entails, then I might find it to be obnoxious, as well. But I doubt it.)

I've always been content to have a "live and let live" attitude toward other people's religions. After all, even though I'm not religious, I do believe in the principle of the Golden Rule that states that we should treat others as we would wish ourselves to be treated, and I wouldn't want others to not have a "live and let live" attitude toward ME.

However, at least a few religions do NOT have a "live and let live" attitude: They encourage active proselytizing as a tenet of their religion. And some religions do encourage the killing of non-believers in at least some of their writings--which is contradicted in other religious writings--but I'll give you just ONE GUESS as to which passages in the holy books will be given emphasis by religious leaders when there are dissenting views to silence, opponents to be gotten rid of, land to grab, property to seize, etc.

And, if you think that Islam is the only self-described "religion of peace" whose adherents have been guilty of torture, wars, mass murders, etc., all in the name of their supposedly peaceful religion, I'd like to remind everyone about the sectarian violence that occurred in Europe during the Hundred Years' War, when the adherents of Catholicism and Protestantism fought one another for religious supremacy of Western Civilization.

Still, though, most of my friends are devout Christians or Muslims or whatever, and I have no desire to disparage their intelligence by mocking their beliefs and their perceived relationship with That Which Is Divine. I have no wish to re-imagine my friends as being enemies who are bent on my conversion or destruction--whichever it is is of little importance, because I'm either with them or I'm against them. (Hmmm...the last time that I heard something along those lines, the SDS was trying to convince me to join them in rioting. And if I wouldn't be part of their solution, then that meant that I was Part Of The Problem. Maybe the problem is not with religion per se, but, instead with all radical ideologues?)

The link at the top of this post is for a site that was set up by ex-Muslims. What they have to say about their former religion is quite educational.

Thank you for your words of wisdom. Thank you for posting them. A refreshing voice of reason.

[efto1]

Thank you for your words of wisdom. Thank you for posting them. A refreshing voice of reason.

Then, does this actually mean you feel when the Ku Klux Klan gave Adoft Hitler the swastika it drove a wedge into Eastern Europe, and eventually garnered slavery, when you unfurl the four pointed swaskika it can be viewed as a Christian's cross? Under your belief system, it is totally permissable to enslave White Eastern Europeans who worshiped a Christian God? When the Russian Orthodox Church was confiscated by communism, and has yet to be returned, this also is alright by your standard of religion? Therefore, when FRD died April 1945, as well as both Hitler and Mussolini, did God die too 653 years ago in Europe when black Christians were exterminated there? Is this why blacks in America and African extration were enslaved, denied their true past and exterminted while their form of Christianity was systematically snuffed out? You did not like your black mother and father in Europe, whom you exterminated, so therefore, you hate all Christians and blacks, as you did your own father and mother now found in Europe's Black Forests?

[Nonagon47]

"... the wise men came together/with the hope to free mankind/of the rubbish that had gathered in God's name/To embrace and trust each other/in their search for the Supreme/and they found that all their teachings were the same." from 'Spiritual Fantasy, Steppenwolf circa 1970-72

We need to look at the actual teachings, not the crust of lies that humans have laid on them. That's where the 'truth' is.

Unless we do, we invite the kind of thing that's going on today, where the followers of what they think is Islam are killing their own. And here's the punchline of that song: "It's sad to know it's just a song/to dream and hope still can't be wrong ..." :confused:

[Nicola]

Can we start talking about the future? What do you think of our President's policies towards the Islamic world? Did you listen to the Cairo speech? Comment on something in the present.

[Nicola]

What a bunch of dribble. What's your point?