Waging war

[Nicola]

What do you think of a military draft?

[cynthialstern]

Well, the draft sure managed to screw up a large portion of MY generation! (Just for reference, I'm referring to the Viet Nam War--oops, I meant "conflict.")

Other than that, I've no really intelligent opinion to offer. I suspect that if the Powers That Be had a ready source of soldiers to tap that they might be even-more-inclined to wage wars everywhere then they are now. Whether or not that would be a good thing depends, I suppose, on your personal politics.

[PayTheMan]

I think it's unlikely. We are already on the move towards a digitized army that does the fighting for us; unmanned vehicles doing recon for instance. Maybe in our lifetime wars will be waged by machines at the push of a button. Oh and drafts are political suicide.

[Nicola]

I think it's unlikely. We are already on the move towards a digitized army that does the fighting for us; unmanned vehicles doing recon for instance. Maybe in our lifetime wars will be waged by machines at the push of a button. Oh and drafts are political suicide.

You are right. It is scary to think about. What to do. Do you remember a StarTrek program where the war was fought by computer simulation? There would be no destruction of property, but casualties would be accessed and people would have to line up to be neutralized.

[Nicola]

Well, the draft sure managed to screw up a large portion of MY generation! (Just for reference, I'm referring to the Viet Nam War--oops, I meant "conflict.")

Other than that, I've no really intelligent opinion to offer. I suspect that if the Powers That Be had a ready source of soldiers to tap that they might be even-more-inclined to wage wars everywhere then they are now. Whether or not that would be a good thing depends, I suppose, on your personal politics.


You are right, it screwed up a generation. I also was part of that generation and an active participant. There was a lot of resistance to the war by the very people that were about to be drafted. I think if you are going to fight a war, everyone should be involved. A volunteer army just has no leg to stand on when asked to fight a war as crazy as the one in Iraq. We basically have a mercenary army who agrees to fight for the rest of us, but doesn't seem to have much to do patriotism. It's just another job. But PayTheMan has a good point. I'm behind the times.

[Diamond Dog]

Those who start the wars (i.e. politicos and their sons & daughters) should populate the wars. I want to see Jenna and Barbara terrorize the Red Zones of Iraq!

[Roscoe_Beedle]

Smart position. Let's not send our best crack troops, let's send the children of Congress. Wise.

By the way, Jenna does volunteer work for children in South Africa who suffer from AIDS. Terminally ill children. Of course our slanted press won't talk about this humanitarian effort on her part. Jenna lives in South Africa in a relief village. And you can bet Al-Qaeda would love to get at her. She's one brave tough Texas lady.

[Tommy]

You can bet Miss Jenna has plenty of secret service people around her.

[GHafez7]

Stop being such veal calves. Don't you people realize that we are at WAR? A war that was started by ISLAMO FASCISTS? Stop being so near sighted and boo-hoo-hoo-ing about the war. Would you rather die at the hands of an islamic terrorist? I know none of you remember, but a few decades ago MANY countries had REQUIRED military service. That's something that should be brough back and if I ever run for political office, its something I'm going to work my hardest to bring back. This country needs to go back to how it was during World War 2. There was no self-loathing about calling a fascist a fascit. Everyone did their part to enhance the war effort. If you think this is any different then you are either clearly delusional, living in a box, or are so swayed by political correctness that you think America is the root of terror.

[Nicola]

Stop being such veal calves. Don't you people realize that we are at WAR? A war that was started by ISLAMO FASCISTS? Stop being so near sighted and boo-hoo-hoo-ing about the war. Would you rather die at the hands of an islamic terrorist? I know none of you remember, but a few decades ago MANY countries had REQUIRED military service. That's something that should be brough back and if I ever run for political office, its something I'm going to work my hardest to bring back. This country needs to go back to how it was during World War 2. There was no self-loathing about calling a fascist a fascit. Everyone did their part to enhance the war effort. If you think this is any different then you are either clearly delusional, living in a box, or are so swayed by political correctness that you think America is the root of terror.

Well, we didn't go back to WWII, instead we went back to Vietnam. What did you think about the Vietnam war?

[GHafez7]

Well, we didn't go back to WWII, instead we went back to Vietnam. What did you think about the Vietnam war?


First of all, this isn't anything LIKE Vietnam so don't even try to make the comparison. The reason we are in the situation we're in is because of groups like the Anti-muslim defimation leage, the Council on American Islamic Relations, the A.C.L.U, and other left wing organizations who made the Bush administration so scared they didn't conduct the war in the proper fashion. We should have gone in, guns blazing and launched a devastating air campaign like that which was launched on Dresden. Then we should have sent in our foot soldiers to raze the towns, and anyone that was suspected of being a terrorist should have been shot. That's what the Americans did in France, they'd go into a town and kill any Nazi they found. You see, that's how wars are fought, we have to blow them up before they blow us up. Do you get it yet? People in the aforementioned organizations need to realize that Islamofascism is a real threat and we need to fight it like we fought the Nazis in world war II. That';s the ONLY way we will win.

[Roscoe_Beedle]

Discussions of a Draft is a bit disingenuous. The Military is not calling for a draft. Congress has asked the Joint Chiefs and they said no. This discussion is only brought up by the anti-war faction to try and gain dissension among the voting population.

A draft would be necessary under some rather extreme circumstances that does not exist presently. So really, bringing it up as an issue now is rather dishonest in discussions of this particular war. We are not, if you haven't noticed, facing a military opponent. We are facing terrorists and suicide nuts who want to kill civilians. This is not WWII. Our troops have to endure suicide bombers and stupid ideology. Not formidable columns of armed militia.

And no draft means the knee-jerk protesters will have to find something else to complain about. Bad for the protest sign business.

[Nicola]

Discussions of a Draft is a bit disingenuous. The Military is not calling for a draft. Congress has asked the Joint Chiefs and they said no. This discussion is only brought up by the anti-war faction to try and gain dissension among the voting population.

A draft would be necessary under some rather extreme circumstances that does not exist presently. So really, bringing it up as an issue now is rather dishonest in discussions of this particular war. We are not, if you haven't noticed, facing a military opponent. We are facing terrorists and suicide nuts who want to kill civilians. This is not WWII. Our troops have to endure suicide bombers and stupid ideology. Not formidable columns of armed militia.

And no draft means the knee-jerk protesters will have to find something else to complain about. Bad for the protest sign business.

Who did we face in Vietnam? The Vietnamese certainly did not threaten us, didn't have weapons of mass distruction, did not terrorize the US, yet we went there and lost nearly 60,000 men and women. It was the pressure of the people of this country that helped end the war. Forget WWII that was a whole different situation. Why do you all overlook Vietnam, is it because we lost?
I want dissention among the population. That is the right of people in a free nation. And if we have to fight, (WWII) then I want everyone to be impacted, including senators sons and daughters, not just a bunch of people joining the military for a job. That's what I call mercenaries.

[Roscoe_Beedle]

You just proved my point Nicola. You're not a very good poker player. Stay away from chess.

You're original opening remark was to ask if we should have a draft. You then predictably went off on Vietnam (" Hell No We Won't Go! " ). My message predicted this exactly. The discussion of a draft is nothing more than food for protestations.

By the way, my father was killed in Vietnam. I don't avoid discussions of Vietnam, but you and I would not see the same thing. Your question on whether we should have a draft is simply loaded.

[Nicola]

You just proved my point Nicola. You're not a very good poker player. Stay away from chess.

You're original opening remark was to ask if we should have a draft. You then predictably went off on Vietnam (" Hell No We Won't Go! " ). My message predicted this exactly. The discussion of a draft is nothing more than food for protestations.

By the way, my father was killed in Vietnam. I don't avoid discussions of Vietnam, but you and I would not see the same thing. Your question on whether we should have a draft is simply loaded.

I served in Vietnam as a Helicoprter crew chief and I know a thing or two about that war. It was an unjust war. It should have never been fought. At the time we had a draft and young people were being shipped out that got all the Universities involved in staging protests against the war. I thanked them when I got back. I got back in 1966 and I and my brother-in-arms already knew then that this was an unwinnable war unless we killed everybody, which we had the power to do. We won almost evey battle and yet lost the war. We lost because the American public had enough of the killing. You didn't answer my questions about the reason why we were in Vietnam.

[Nicola]

First of all, this isn't anything LIKE Vietnam so don't even try to make the comparison. The reason we are in the situation we're in is because of groups like the Anti-muslim defimation leage, the Council on American Islamic Relations, the A.C.L.U, and other left wing organizations who made the Bush administration so scared they didn't conduct the war in the proper fashion. We should have gone in, guns blazing and launched a devastating air campaign like that which was launched on Dresden. Then we should have sent in our foot soldiers to raze the towns, and anyone that was suspected of being a terrorist should have been shot. That's what the Americans did in France, they'd go into a town and kill any Nazi they found. You see, that's how wars are fought, we have to blow them up before they blow us up. Do you get it yet? People in the aforementioned organizations need to realize that Islamofascism is a real threat and we need to fight it like we fought the Nazis in world war II. That';s the ONLY way we will win.

Gee, you are not very responsive to questions. You only hear one voice, and its yours. Have you been in a war? Were you a front line soldier? How old are you? Do you read history books? Where were you when Dresden was firebombed. How can you be so sure that your opinion is not flawed in some way? Besides all out war do you have any other suggestions? Do you still have family in the old country? If so what about them? Your war would not be able to realize the difference between your family and terrorists. Do you think every Arab is a terrorist? We (US) are the most powerful country the earth has ever seen. It's not what Iraq does, it's what we do that scares me.

[GHafez7]

Gee, you are not very responsive to questions. You only hear one voice, and its yours. Have you been in a war? Were you a front line soldier? How old are you? Do you read history books? Where were you when Dresden was firebombed. How can you be so sure that your opinion is not flawed in some way? Besides all out war do you have any other suggestions? Do you still have family in the old country? If so what about them? Your war would not be able to realize the difference between your family and terrorists. Do you think every Arab is a terrorist? We (US) are the most powerful country the earth has ever seen. It's not what Iraq does, it's what we do that scares me.


To answer your first question I have not been in war, I have not served either and from the way you speak I know you haven't either. To answer your second question, what I stated about Dresden was a fact, the city was bombed to hell...which is what we must do to win a war...bomb the enemies into submission or they will do that to us because I guarantee you that ISLAMOFASCISTS (note I never use the word arab) won't grant you the same accord if the shoe was on the other foot. To answer your third question, my mother grew up in the middle east during the 1950s and 1960s, it was not as bad as it is now, but it was bad. My family left because they were arab Christians persecuted by MUSLIMS. By the way, I'M an arab and I never once used the term "arab terrorist" or anything to give you the idea that I think arabs are terrorists. Muslims are the ones waging war on us, not arabs. Got it? Oh wait...i forgot, in the PC world you live in you're not allowed to think about FACTS like that. Well its a FACT that almost every conflict going on right now in the world has been started by muslims or involves muslims in some way...afghanistan, chechnya, bosnia, darfur...i could go on, but I don't want to burst your PC bubble.

[Nicola]

To answer your first question I have not been in war, I have not served either and from the way you speak I know you haven't either. To answer your second question, what I stated about Dresden was a fact, the city was bombed to hell...which is what we must do to win a war...bomb the enemies into submission or they will do that to us because I guarantee you that ISLAMOFASCISTS (note I never use the word arab) won't grant you the same accord if the shoe was on the other foot. To answer your third question, my mother grew up in the middle east during the 1950s and 1960s, it was not as bad as it is now, but it was bad. My family left because they were arab Christians persecuted by MUSLIMS. By the way, I'M an arab and I never once used the term "arab terrorist" or anything to give you the idea that I think arabs are terrorists. Muslims are the ones waging war on us, not arabs. Got it? Oh wait...i forgot, in the PC world you live in you're not allowed to think about FACTS like that. Well its a FACT that almost every conflict going on right now in the world has been started by muslims or involves muslims in some way...afghanistan, chechnya, bosnia, darfur...i could go on, but I don't want to burst your PC bubble.
You really sound like an angry man. Your views are cast in stone. You will not let a single new concept invade your closed mind. Now you are fighting with me. You don't know me an yet you make assumptions that you know about me. Just for starters let me burst that bubble of yours. I have been to war. I am a veteran. I was a helicopter crew chief with the 1st Cav. Think before you shoot yourself in the foot. I think you've had it way to easy in your life otherwise you wouldn't make such stupid statements like: "To answer your first question I have not been in war, I have not served either and from the way you speak I know you haven't either." You had never had to put your ass on the line. Why aren't you out there in Iraq. Why have you never been in the military. You speak as if it would be just the place for you. You could be kicking ass right now, not with cheap talk but with weapons. Your no soldier and never will be, so why do you want some one else to drop the bombs on people if your not willing to participate. You're to young to have such anger in you. If you want to do something constructive think globally but act locally. Start by doing something for your community rather than spreading anger and fear and bombing and wiping out people you know nothing about.

[GHafez7]

You really sound like an angry man. Your views are cast in stone. You will not let a single new concept invade your closed mind. Now you are fighting with me. You don't know me an yet you make assumptions that you know about me. Just for starters let me burst that bubble of yours. I have been to war. I am a veteran. I was a helicopter crew chief with the 1st Cav. Think before you shoot yourself in the foot. I think you've had it way to easy in your life otherwise you wouldn't make such stupid statements like: "To answer your first question I have not been in war, I have not served either and from the way you speak I know you haven't either." You had never had to put your ass on the line. Why aren't you out there in Iraq. Why have you never been in the military. You speak as if it would be just the place for you. You could be kicking ass right now, not with cheap talk but with weapons. Your no soldier and never will be, so why do you want some one else to drop the bombs on people if your not willing to participate. You're to young to have such anger in you. If you want to do something constructive think globally but act locally. Start by doing something for your community rather than spreading anger and fear and bombing and wiping out people you know nothing about.


I don't know you and this is a computer, the fact of the matter is...anyone can say anything about who they are. I am an arab american, and I KNOW the way islamofascists think. Being a veteran, you more than anyone else, should know exactly how a war should be fought in order to win...

[Roscoe_Beedle]

Nicola you seem to think your war experience elevates your arguments to a higher level. Nonsense. Most Americans have been touched by war and UNDERSTAND WAR just as well as you do.

My opinion of Vietnam is vastly different than yours I am sure. I find the original mission statement to stop communist aggresion to be a just one. Now I won't get dragged into a debate about this, the times have changed. Old lefties and people unable to open their eyes love Vietnam for arguments sake.

I find it interesting that you, a family escaping Nazi Germany, came to America for their freedom. Why didn't your family escape to Soviet Russia? Soviet Russia would have satisfied your need to see religion forbidden to be part of the public experience.

And what has America brought to you that fills your eyes with such contempt? Don't you feel even an once of gratitude for this land and its people that offer you and your family such safe refuge?

[Nicola]

Nicola you seem to think your war experience elevates your arguments to a higher level. Nonsense. Most Americans have been touched by war and UNDERSTAND WAR just as well as you do.

My opinion of Vietnam is vastly different than yours I am sure. I find the original mission statement to stop communist aggresion to be a just one. Now I won't get dragged into a debate about this, the times have changed. Old lefties and people unable to open their eyes love Vietnam for arguments sake.

I find it interesting that you, a family escaping Nazi Germany, came to America for their freedom. Why didn't your family escape to Soviet Russia? Soviet Russia would have satisfied your need to see religion forbidden to be part of the public experience.

And what has America brought to you that fills your eyes with such contempt? Don't you feel even an once of gratitude for this land and its people that offer you and your family such safe refuge?

Have you ever had to put your life on the line, with a rifle in your hand, in a foreign country. If you have I take my hat off to you. And will listen with great interest in what you have to say. Yes, No?

[GHafez7]

Have you ever had to put your life on the line, with a rifle in your hand, in a foreign country. If you have I take my hat off to you. And will listen with great interest in what you have to say. Yes, No?


Since you brag so much about supposedly having been in the military, was your service voluntary or were you drafted?

[Roscoe_Beedle]

I did not serve in the military. As my father had. And uncle and now one son. But so what? Your worldview is flawed and wrong. Simply tired old leftist claptrap.

Now answer mine: Why did your family flea Nazi Germany for the US and not the USSR? You state an intolerance for religious peoples. The USSR was the place for you it seems.

[Nicola]

I did not serve in the military. As my father had. And uncle and now one son. But so what? Your worldview is flawed and wrong. Simply tired old leftist claptrap.

Now answer mine: Why did your family flea Nazi Germany for the US and not the USSR? You state an intolerance for religious peoples. The USSR was the place for you it seems.

We did not flee Germany. We left only because my mother could not bear to have her sons wear a German uniform. My father was a good Catholic German who told the Church to stickit because of the Vatican's complicity with the Nazis. Mother was part German/Russian/Jew living in Lodz. The Russians were as bad as the Germans. We came here the way you might move to New York for a career opportunity. We did not come to the US to take your job away or because we were oppressed.
About war: I hope your son is safe. I hope he will not fall victim to our foreign policies.
Zen thing: With out left there is no right. All things must be considered.Never having seen the light one cant imagine what darkness is. Flexibility and tollarance is what is needed, especially in this rich and powerful country.

[Nicola]

I don't know you and this is a computer, the fact of the matter is...anyone can say anything about who they are. I am an arab american, and I KNOW the way islamofascists think. Being a veteran, you more than anyone else, should know exactly how a war should be fought in order to win...

So you may not be an Arab-american. I may not be a veteran. All our discussions are useless. Yes I have an inkling about how to fight a war and win. The pilot of my helicopter used to say that we we'll have to kill all the people in order to have democracy in Vietnam. We could have killed them all, but we did not. So we lost that one. In Iraq it is similar, we have opposing indiginous faction fighting each other. We should make them fight each other and let the blood bath begin and we should get the hell out of the way. Then we should spend our energy hunting down individuals who mean to harm us like Osama.

[2smart4u]

What do you think of a military draft?

Very bad idea.

[2smart4u]

Smart position. Let's not send our best crack troops, let's send the children of Congress. Wise.

By the way, Jenna does volunteer work for children in South Africa who suffer from AIDS. Terminally ill children. Of course our slanted press won't talk about this humanitarian effort on her part. Jenna lives in South Africa in a relief village. And you can bet Al-Qaeda would love to get at her. She's one brave tough Texas lady.

I wouldn't call what we have now "our best crack troops". Why can't the children of congress become "our best crack troops"?

If our media is slanted, it's to the right.

[2smart4u]

Stop being such veal calves. Don't you people realize that we are at WAR? A war that was started by ISLAMO FASCISTS? Stop being so near sighted and boo-hoo-hoo-ing about the war. Would you rather die at the hands of an islamic terrorist? I know none of you remember, but a few decades ago MANY countries had REQUIRED military service. That's something that should be brough back and if I ever run for political office, its something I'm going to work my hardest to bring back. This country needs to go back to how it was during World War 2. There was no self-loathing about calling a fascist a fascit. Everyone did their part to enhance the war effort. If you think this is any different then you are either clearly delusional, living in a box, or are so swayed by political correctness that you think America is the root of terror.

News flash: This war was started by a Fascist, but his name is George Bush.
Open your eyes.

[2smart4u]

First of all, this isn't anything LIKE Vietnam so don't even try to make the comparison. The reason we are in the situation we're in is because of groups like the Anti-muslim defimation leage, the Council on American Islamic Relations, the A.C.L.U, and other left wing organizations who made the Bush administration so scared they didn't conduct the war in the proper fashion. We should have gone in, guns blazing and launched a devastating air campaign like that which was launched on Dresden. Then we should have sent in our foot soldiers to raze the towns, and anyone that was suspected of being a terrorist should have been shot. That's what the Americans did in France, they'd go into a town and kill any Nazi they found. You see, that's how wars are fought, we have to blow them up before they blow us up. Do you get it yet? People in the aforementioned organizations need to realize that Islamofascism is a real threat and we need to fight it like we fought the Nazis in world war II. That';s the ONLY way we will win.

What a load! We should never have gone to Iraq.

[GHafez7]

What a load! We should never have gone to Iraq.


That's right! You lefties don't really care about oppressed people do you? Over three hundred thousand people were killed by Saddam Hussein, but you don't care. What do you know? Are you middle eastern? No. You're 2smartforno1. First be oppressed, then say it wasn't a just cause. Oh wait...you lefties only care when muslims are oppressed...sorry.

[GHafez7]

News flash: This war was started by a Fascist, but his name is George Bush.
Open your eyes.

The Fascist was Saddam Hussein. Maybe you should watch the Fox News special about Islam...it was an eye opener for people who are 2smart4no1. You would see what TRUE fascism is...its indoctrination of children to hate Jews and Christians. You can say GW Bush is a Fascist all you want, but your OPINION is just NOT TRUE. The war was started by Saddam Hussein when he wouldn't let UN weapons inspectors in. The war was started by Saddam Hussein when he slaughtered over 300,000 Iraqi men, women, and children. What do you know? Have you been to the middle east? I doubt it. I have been there many times, I know what oppression by your government is. If you think GW Bush is a fascists, than as far as fascists go, you have it pretty dang well.

[2smart4u]

That's right! You lefties don't really care about oppressed people do you? Over three hundred thousand people were killed by Saddam Hussein, but you don't care. What do you know? Are you middle eastern? No. You're 2smartforno1. First be oppressed, then say it wasn't a just cause. Oh wait...you lefties only care when muslims are oppressed...sorry.

Anyone with any intelligence at all knows we never should have attacked Iraq. There was no good reason. How many Iraqi civilians have the US troops killed, injured, or raped? Even they would prefer we weren't there.

If you're so worried about oppressed peoples, there's plenty of other places we should have attacked first.

Get your head out of the sand. You righties only care when there's a profit to be made.

[2smart4u]

The Fascist was Saddam Hussein. Maybe you should watch the Fox News special about Islam...it was an eye opener for people who are 2smart4no1. You would see what TRUE fascism is...its indoctrination of children to hate Jews and Christians. You can say GW Bush is a Fascist all you want, but your OPINION is just NOT TRUE. The war was started by Saddam Hussein when he wouldn't let UN weapons inspectors in. The war was started by Saddam Hussein when he slaughtered over 300,000 Iraqi men, women, and children. What do you know? Have you been to the middle east? I doubt it. I have been there many times, I know what oppression by your government is. If you think GW Bush is a fascists, than as far as fascists go, you have it pretty dang well.

Maybe you should watch something OTHER than Faux News. I don't believe anything they have to say. Bush is a fascist and a terrorist, and the worst and most corrupt president of all time. HE started the war. That is a fact. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't change it. Get your head out, son.

[2smart4u]

That's right! You lefties don't really care about oppressed people do you? Over three hundred thousand people were killed by Saddam Hussein, but you don't care. What do you know? Are you middle eastern? No. You're 2smartforno1. First be oppressed, then say it wasn't a just cause. Oh wait...you lefties only care when muslims are oppressed...sorry.

655,000 Iraqis now dead thanks to the US invading Iraq. Who's worse, Saddam or GW?

[Roscoe_Beedle]

Your number is wrong. It came from a discredited University study that has been pulled. So get the facts first.

Sadaam or GW. Gee that's a hard one. Bulldozers covering up open grave sites of more than 100,000 children shot in the head by Saddam's order. We uncovered these grave sites. Maybe you missed that one.

[Nicola]

Your number is wrong. It came from a discredited University study that has been pulled. So get the facts first.

Sadaam or GW. Gee that's a hard one. Bulldozers covering up open grave sites of more than 100,000 children shot in the head by Saddam's order. We uncovered these grave sites. Maybe you missed that one.

The arguments about "Waging War" sadden me. The vehemence of the arguments depress me. It really doesn't take courage to vent your anger in a free country. Try it in Iraq, Iran, China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, Turkey, etc.
Let's find solutions that are reasonable. Try to leave out the MAS MACHO.

[2smart4u]

Your number is wrong. It came from a discredited University study that has been pulled. So get the facts first.

Sadaam or GW. Gee that's a hard one. Bulldozers covering up open grave sites of more than 100,000 children shot in the head by Saddam's order. We uncovered these grave sites. Maybe you missed that one.

Over 3,000 dead Iraqi civilians every month. Maybe you missed that one.

Oh, and show me where that study was discredited.

[2smart4u]

The arguments about "Waging War" sadden me. The vehemence of the arguments depress me. It really doesn't take courage to vent your anger in a free country. Try it in Iraq, Iran, China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, Turkey, etc.
Let's find solutions that are reasonable. Try to leave out the MAS MACHO.

The arguments in favor of waging war sadden me. We should never have attacked Iraq. Period.

[efto1]

You are right, it screwed up a generation. I also was part of that generation and an active participant. There was a lot of resistance to the war by the very people that were about to be drafted. I think if you are going to fight a war, everyone should be involved. A volunteer army just has no leg to stand on when asked to fight a war as crazy as the one in Iraq. We basically have a mercenary army who agrees to fight for the rest of us, but doesn't seem to have much to do patriotism. It's just another job. But PayTheMan has a good point. I'm behind the times.

This would all be so true, except the Hippy movement came out of the Army. The peace symbol can be found in military airplanes where pilots pick targets. Hippy is a variation of "Hep, two, three, four,": a term used in the Army for marching. Drugs in Vietnam were stronger in Vietnam than they were stateside. GIs who were hooked on them all claimed that they got better dope in the jungle of Vietnam supplied by the CIA.